Same old gripe for VF4?

Yes , i guess no matter what outsiders attempt to join the vf leagues, they get frustrated to quickly because they attempt to play it like tekken/SC.
Here are some remarks I here from some regular Tplayers after getting educated in the subtle arts of VF.
"yeah this game looks real nice , but it isn't deep enough"
"yeah, they did they unlock any new stages or characters"
"I don't think so, they should give some new characters or stages or something"
"yeah, I mean this game isn't crap when it comes to ingenuity"
"THe game is pretty cheap though, there arent' enough combos again, this guy just kept blocking my moves and i couldn't throw, the throws don't work good"
"i can't get good because there aren't enough moves, + the characters are always the same. Tekken gives tons of new characters everytime".

Yes i kept my mouth shut, jsut shaking my head and wanting to butt in, but maybe I will next time. these gamers have to be educated or if they're hard headed challenged with their big tekken ego's.

Anyway, there is tons more, but what would you guys do?? butt in or not??

fed-up-stino

 

I always but in .

 

Ask them to name one thing Tekken has that VF doesn't (aside from time release gimmicks), and which game had it first.
That should shut their mouths about "depth".

 

VF doesn't have:
-chickens (thank god)
-Bruce Lee/Rutgeur Haur/Jacky Chan to name a few... (again, thank god)
-one button throw escapes (thank god)
-throws that completely telegraph the escape to use (thank god)

TK had before:
-Throw whiffs
-unblockables
-u/d dodge system
-four buttons
-textures (but by such a small margin if I recall)
-camera change on throws
-visual hit indicators
-moves with long-ass execution frames

And that's just to name a few. And just for fun

-Chanchai

 

VF also doesn't 30+ characters and/or characters where half of which are all pretty similar.

Personally I butt out unless they're talking to me directly or I know them.

 

VF has one chicken. Pai vs. Pai reversal escape.
Jacky = Jacky chan. Just white.

You don't give VF enough credit!

VF had Kage's f,f+PKG unblockable first. Also I think wolf's f,f+P.
VF had dodging in VF2. The execution of it is not really important.
Number of buttons is also irrelevant. We're talking gameplay. Comparing
number of buttons is like saying "Tekken was the first game to have Tekken cabinet art."
As for visual hit indicators... feKkh. Seeing the dude's head snap back is a visual hit indicator.
We had longass execution moves in VF 1 and 2!

 

Not to mention textures , VF2 arcade was released BEFORE Tekken 1 arcade .

 

VF had Kage's f,f+PKG unblockable first. Also I think wolf's f,f+P.

I was actually thinking about that, but decided that the f,f+P+K+G wouldn't be considered an unblockable since you can block it crouching. Wolf's arm bar would qualify as one though--was it in VF1/2?

 

yah it was.
POST VIOLATION #27! WOOT W00T!

 

-27 points

BANNED!

 

bummer!

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hmm .. tekken player gripes:
paraphrasing here,
VF is masher friendly, all the combos are just PPP and then u/d+K. all the moves are too easily done and thus its easy to mash.
VF isn't realistic, the only way you can hit someone on the ground is to leap onto them, gravity doesnt apply (what? tekken, with launchers so big youd think the cabinet said marvel vs ... ) ...
most popular sentiment is lack of depth.

tekken did already have tech rolls and quick rises, though they are implemented a bit differently ... in tekken tech rolls usually equal certain death.

 

Tekken had before:
vale tudo
tech rolls
quick recover
flamingo stance
many characters with specific stances
boundless arena
auto inashi (stretching here)
escapable side throws
escapable multi-throws
escapable ground throws
missing characters from previous game (yay)
double-over stun
'special mid' low punches
character with name of 'Lei'

vf doesn't have:
boxing, muay thai, caporeira, tae kwon do
playable (in arcade) end boss
realistic on ground hit detection (unless everything hits on ground in vf4???)
tap out of stun
tagging
'just frame' (unless you count akira's knee?)
gaining life back in middle of round (am i forgetting something?)
space ninja shenanigans
mainstream popularity in U.S.

 

hahaha, you basically had nothing to say eh, and then added some stupid ones to make the list longer. your list is pretty laughable. I wont correct you, someone else will.

 

Hey, Fred.. It's Yi Fan here. What's up bro??

Now, personally speaking I'm a VF newbie so quoting me would be somewhat silly. I have been a Tekken player for around 3 years... only started playing VF4 just a month ago.
B4 the hardcore VF peeps shut me down, I'd just like to say that both Tekken and VF rock...I mean to me they both possess depth and while they're definitely different games, they should be treated just as that, different.
With that said, I can name a few things that are different between the two... somethings are better in my opinion, but as I state, my opinion. And these only make the two games more interesting to play, I mean, who would want to play two identical games???...

1. Multi's.. correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the multi-throws on VF goes beyond 4 throws right?? I've been a King player for 3 years, and still love the sight of a 5 throw multi being executed. VF has quite a few multis as well, and they look pretty awesome too. Tho perhaps not as lengthy...

2. Walls... Tekken had infinite walls until T4 which introduced bounded stages. Lack of walls made chasing some turtlers a bit of a pain in Tekken. VF never had that problem so that's always been cool.

3. Button setup... I personally find the Tekken setup of left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick more intuitive, if u saw a move being performed, it's easier to decipher the commands because u know which limb performed it. Or if it's a double limb move, u know u have to press left punch and left kick together... VF's system is unique but perhaps not very move-finding friendly.... especially double limb moves..

Anyway, that's all I got for the moment. Happy gaming to all..

 

I'll take a first pass:

Tekken had before:
vale tudo - If you mean Craig, VF4 came out before T4
tech rolls - SF and KOF had it before Tekken; what's your point?
quick recover - see above
flamingo stance - semantics only
many characters with specific stances - but VF had them before Tekken
boundless arena - is this a strength?
auto inashi (stretching here) - you're right
escapable side throws - big whoop
escapable multi-throws - nope, VF first
escapable ground throws - is this a strength? Most wrestling games have this feature
missing characters from previous game (yay) - ok
double-over stun - a different type of stagger
'special mid' low punches - that sounds like an SF/KOF low punch doesn't it
character with name of 'Lei' - that's impressive

vf doesn't have:
boxing, muay thai, caporeira, tae kwon do - so?
playable (in arcade) end boss - no biggie, Dural would have made the game unbalanced
realistic on ground hit detection (unless everything hits on ground in vf4???) - !?!?
tap out of stun - it doesn't need one, the KD's are fairly balanced
tagging - I hope it doesn't get it
'just frame' (unless you count akira's knee?) - Akira's knee doesn't count, but the jury's still out whether or not JF is even a good thing
gaining life back in middle of round (am i forgetting something?) - huh?
space ninja shenanigans - how could AM2 forget??
mainstream popularity in U.S. - unfortunate

Sal is right, you're stretching like crazy here. I like Tekken a lot, but it's ridiculous to suggest that Tekken is the innovator. Yes, Tekken influences VF, I don't think anyone is going to say that AM2 works in a vacuum without looking at other fighting games (including SC, DOA, et. al.).

The argument you're trying is fruitless; for the things you can find that Tekken had before VF, I can get you a billion things that VF had before Tekken. Hell, VF pioneered the concept of 3D fighting. VF is the originator of 3D versus fighting games in the way SF is the originator of all 2D fighting games.

As for the depth issue, that's relatively clear cut. Like I previously wrote in another post, one could make the argument that Tag is "deeper" than VF3, at least from a mechanical perspective (I do think VF3 is deeper in terms of variability in options/mind games). But with all the stance stuff introduced in 4, VF4's mechanical depth is at least up to par. Certainly, to say VF has no depth is just plain misguided.

 

3. Button setup... I personally find the Tekken setup of left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick more intuitive, if u saw a move being performed, it's easier to decipher the commands because u know which limb performed it. Or if it's a double limb move, u know u have to press left punch and left kick together... VF's system is unique but perhaps not very move-finding friendly.... especially double limb moves..

Play VF a little longer and I guarantee you that you'll eventually take VF's setup over Tekken's any day. The G button makes all the difference.

Further, I can understand what you're saying in terms of intuition, but I think the benefits are only skin deep as it only helps you to remember moves; it doesn't actually affect gameplay all that much.

 

Virtua Fighter:
-has playability since first release
-improved on graphics and animation on each sequel
-pioneered the 3d fighter genre
-was/is the benchmark in graphics and animation using expensive motion capture technology (yes- there are 'cheaper' alternatives)

----------------------------
*not all combos are just ppp - it depends on character u play and the style. hence for Jacky and Sarah (jeet kune do) most 'basic' combos are ppp etc etc. look at below for more on this.

* realism is a tough issue - lets face it if a 3d fighter was relaistic, you'd be able to shit kick someone to death while they are down. this doesnt work to well in arcade games for some reason. *sarcasm*

*Vitua Fighter button layout: anyone who knows about SEGA knows the policy on arcade games -'accessablity' - most SEGA games are the 3 button layout - 4 max. Hence the ppp combos on some characters.

as for my view on tekken:
* shitty to poor animation (excluding T4)
* namco's ulgy stick approach to graphics (tight ass pricks)
* really poor combos that dont make sense (but i guess most ppl dont seem to care anymore)
* is merly a VF wannabe
* namco has takken 8 years to get it where it is now (T4)-idiots!
* lenghty combos are novelty in nature (read: boring)
* silliest f**king characters ever rounded up (yep - this is deep stuff)
*sarcasm*
* too many similar characters - whats up with that recycling shit?!

having said this - i am a little disappointed with the direction of VF4. As most of you have read around the web - VF4 is a sequel to VF2 not VF3tb -so its a bit of a retro.

I think AM2 had a toughie with this one - its one thing to be the leader in the industry, another to be a poor ripoff.

 

Hrmm..well, balance, vf4, from what I understand, is about as balanced as vf2, which means that their is a definitive hiearchy.
I think one thing that everybody will agree with me is that Namco's characters, in terms of concept and design, crush vfs...

 

I disagree because you never have that deep connnection with Namco's characters that you have with SEGA's. They also just seem like copies of characters from movies. More like pop culture refrences than oiriginal character designs.