Same old gripe for VF4?

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umm what exactly do you mean by 'spirit' moves?
in many years of tekken i've never heard the term.

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In Tekken term, spirit moves are unblockable moves that instantly kill opponent. It is slow to use due to its delay making player vulnerable to attack or throw if timed right. IMO, it's one of useless moves agaisnt decent players.

 

Is true that Tekken have 4 button that refer which limb they they used when perform a move, but in other hand VF ( start with VF3 ) always sistematic with the control. For example x P+G refer to a high throw, xP+K+G refer to low throw, and once you learn how xP+K, xK+G, and combination for E button to the move that you pull out , you will fell much easier to perform any move. Any way VF not button mashing, many of it's move requires to use joystick and button.

 

Umm, in reference to the so called 'spirit' moves, we just call them unblockables in Tekken, but semantics aside. They do have some use, if some what limited, and most of them don't actually take off the entire life bar, only a select few, for eg. Kuma(the grizzly bear for those not familiar with Tekken) has an unblockable fart that does around 200 damage, while the normal Tekken lifebar is only 140, so that kills outright, but u have to be a complete idiot to walk into it tho. However, having said that, it's very fun to kill n00bs with this...
Some throws may guarantee an unblockable if u don't roll in the correct direction, but those unblockables do only around a quarter damage. I do agree however that it is rather useless against veterans, they'll only mock ur stupidity...

Summerz, who were the guys callin' VF silly?? R they the usual Tekken crowd u see me with or newbies?? Cause most the guys I talked to like VF... even if they won't switch to it.

 

Mashing often involve random joystick motions as well as button smashing...
There's mashers in all games out there... so it's not like it's a specific attribute attached to Tekken or VF for that matter.

One thing I liked about Tekken's four button setup is that when u see a really cool combo being performed, u actually have a good chance of deciphering the commands to do that combo without having to search for a FAQ... since the limb movement indicate what buttons to press, and if u r partially familiar with Tekken moves, then u also have a good inclination as to what the associated joystick motion is.

Anyway, this isn't a flame bait, just my 2 cents for the day...
Peace to all.

 

TequilaPilot, come on man, like I mentioned, intuition in controls only matters on a beginner-to-intermediate level...if you're an advanced player, you should already know what the commands are for moves and you shouldn't care what button corresponds to what limb...it's not even worth thinking about, unless it has something to do with the gameplay, which Tekken's button setup doesn't. Further, I think it's ironic that intuition of control would be seen as a strength of Tekken when the timing involved for the longer strings in the game are downright counter-intuitive and strictly memory/rote-based.

To add to the unblockable discussion...some of the unblockables can be used in combos, so they are not entirely useless and are at least entertaining to use against newbies, heh heh.

 

What do u mean by the 'longer strings', Ice?
If u mean the 10 strings, they actually are pretty easy to remember, and the motions are intuitive, but 10 strings are useless against veterans, they'll just block it all or worse, interrupt u half way, and then punish with a juggle. Besides, they only look good the first few times around, after that it's just silly...
Tekken is based on juggling the guy and playing low high mixups, not 10 strings, 10 strings are for messin' with a newbie's head... lol Absolute hilarious watchin' a n00b try to block all the hits of a 10 string... hahahaha...

 

Oh yay another vf vs tekken thread. What I found hilarious was someone brought up that Tekken has an animated movie and that puts it up over VF. That made my spleen liquify I was laughing so hard.

As far as character design goes...I'd say yeah Tekken does bite off of pop culture designs.

Yoshimitsu: Turned into the Predator with Tekken 2. Plays unlike anyone in VF. Though I must say I like his armored outfit in Tekken 4 a lot. Hate his style though.

Law: Bruce Lee

The rest are pretty original/generic though. You can say paul looks like blah blah blah but he's basically a white guy with blonde hair, nina just a white broad with blonde hair. EVERY fucking white dood in fighting games (of japanese design) seem to have blonde hair. I guess it's to make sure you know their white. I just hate that he was a direct rip off of Akira.

Now in all seriousness I have found the origin of Lau Chan.
Check out the kung fu flick "Shaolin vs Lama" seriously Lau is in that movie. Pony tail and all even fights with a lot of chops huhuhuhu. Even does his p+g throw and b+p+g.

 

Yes, I know TequilaPilot, I am pretty confident about my own Tekken skills. However, the 10-hit strings is partly what I'm referring to. Maybe they are for you, but they are NOT intuitive for me or anyone else that I know, and they're a pain to remember.

Finally, they are useless at high level play only when both players know the strings and know how to counter them. Unfortunately, I know plenty of really good players that don't bother learning the 10-hit strings and can play with the best, but get killed against some beginner-intermediate player who uses it all the time. They'll adjust quickly and end up winning a lot more, but still.

 

I know, 10 strings are almost a redundant part of Tekken, and now I never bother to use them, but the Tekken posse I hang around with can pretty much block all the 10 strings even when none of us uses them... it's part of the whole learning curve, scrubs and newbies will always start off somewhere with simple cheap moves, and 10 strings and hopefully move up to more advanced techniques.
Most 10 strings are relatively easy, but some can be a complete pain in the ass, especially the ones with delay placed in various places between the hits, those are often the ones that are the hardest to do...
Now I'm not preaching like some almighty Tekken god or anything, hell, I died to 10 strings in the past, <- with an emphasis on the word 'past'... hahahaha... At best, I'm just intermediate to expert. But in the end, I think judgin' Tekken's gameplay based on 10 strings is a bit far fetched...

 

I like to think of this as more of a "Spot the difference between Tekken and VF", rather than "Tekken vs VF".

I agree that Tekken characters are pretty much cultural icons.
But I think that in part is what's appealing about them, well, at least to the Tekken community anyway..
Here's a few obvious ones.
Law = Bruce Lee .. as u mentioned. props to ya.
Lei = Jacky Chan.. I know some ppl may disagree, but when u think of HK cops who can pull off the drunken style, who comes to mind??
Craig = Goldberg.. New character for Tekken 4, basically a Goldberg(WCW) ripoff, complete with Goldberg tackle, Goldberg JackHammer and a massive thrust kick.
Yoshi = Predator.. once again, props to ya. The intro scene for Tekken 3 where he drops from a tree while in optic camouflage was pure Predator 1.
King = Entire WWF ... I know, not really a cultural icon, as much as an entire wrestling federation.. :{)

The whole cultural icon thing provides an enormous appeal, I mean, who doesn't want to send Bruce Lee flying around the screen, screaming like a constipated chicken..
Besides, everyone's seen too many 'just out of mould' karate type martial arts characters. A bit of celebrity punch them up is cool...
With that said, VF's characters are also very cool, I absolutely love Vanessa, she is the bomb. They could use her instead of Halle Berry for the next X-Men movie.. lol, j/k...
Lei is also a kickass character, does the whole monk stereotype some real justice..

Anyway, enuf said.. back to exam cramming..
*sigh*

 

>vf doesn't have:
>boxing, muay thai, caporeira, tae kwon do

i dunno if someone has already corrected you here, but VF4 does have muay thai (vanessa). as for TKD, well, if a VF5 character uses it then i for one will be turning into a character specialist

 

First post ever, just want to say that this board is the sweetest!
As a martial artist and gamer, I've always held VF in a higher regard than Tekken because of the faithfulness to realism of the martial arts portrayed in the game. VF was far and away destroying Tekken in this category and still pretty much is. Both games have there merits. I happen to think VF has a few more. (Especially now that they've added my most sacred wish in a game, a bona fied Shaolin Monk, WOO HOOO!) But I think that variety is the spice of life. Tekken has sort of taken a slight lead in this area, and hear me out before you flame. Lets look at the arts represented in these games.

VF4
Akira
Baji Quan: (actually some tai chi in there too and Xingyi)

Pai
Crane Fist (Seems given her dad's Hung Gar influence, you'd see more style-ized crane movements, a little more similar to Lei from tekken's crane stance. Hope that she has some of the wushu-ized movements from the VF4 trailer I've seen, No VF4 cabinets in Cleveland yet so I don't know what her new moves are.

Lau
Tiger Fist
(Heavily Hung Gar influenced). Lau is one of the best desgined characters ever. I think Yu Suzuki watched a couple of the Once upon a Time in China Movies. can barely see the Crane move ments in his up forward palm, and the throat throw/choke slam is definitely tiger based. Always pictured Lau as having other animal styles, as Hung Gar has the 5 animal styles in it, Leopard or Panther, Snake, and Dragon.

Shun Di
Drunken Fist

Nuff said' best representation in the gaming world of this style, (though, Shun might be in for some comp with Brad Wong from DOA3, Have you guys seen this character in action?NIIIIIIIIIIIICE!)

Jacky and Sarah
Jeet Kune Do
Far better representation of the style than Law, all they need are 1 inch punches. Only thing missing from these characters are more Wing Chun influnced moves. These two should have counters and Traps galore. Because of the nature of they're style, I think in just they're case, 1 button counters, for accuracy's sake, may be justified. Not to make them unbalanced, if not one button counters, an easier counter than the norm.

Vanessa
Muay Thai
Pretty decent representation from the clips I've seen, but when I first heard that she was from brazil, I just knew she was going to be a fighter in the Gracie vein. Oh well

Lei Fei
Northern Shaolin Kung Fu
I'm so all over this guy when I get to play it! From the clips I've seen, a lot of LongFist and Wushu stuff, couple of postures from forms I've done and am working on! Should have gave him some 5 animal stuff, but there is so much under the umbrella of Shaolin, He should have Techniques from just about everybody in the game.

Wolf
Pro Wrestling
Not as many moves as King, but Just as good a character, and more shoot fight stuff in VF 4 from what I hear. Should be in the "Ken Shamrock" vein, and should be a submissions expert.

Lion
Praying Mantis Kung Fu
Wushu-ized version of the form, and the best and only representation in 3 d fighting. (Gen from SFA3 rules the 2-d mantis set!)

Jeffrey
Pankration
Descent enough, I always thought Jeff should've been a submissions monster, He was MMA(mixed martial arts) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Craig marduk was a twinkle in the old eye. If not him then Wolf should've had multi part throws out the wazzoo

Aoi
Aikido
The best representation of this period.
Steven Segal-eriffic!

Kage
Tai-jutsu
Have always been confused as where to catogorize Kage, his post fight poses always put me in the mind of a monk, and his acrobatic, and low stanced stuff reinforced that. He has a liberal helping of judo in his arsenal, and his strikes are on par with any one in terms of quickness.


Thats 13 very distinctly different characters, and the only 4 you could argue that are similar, are Jackie and Sarah, Lau and Pai. And every game they've steadily progressed in different directions. and 12 different fighting styles

Tekken

Hworang
Tae Kwan Do
Probably the best 3d Gaming representations of this style,
In typical tekken fashion, exaggerated abit, but pretty to look at.

Eddy Gordo
Capoeria
A lot of actual practitioners of this style are a little upset at this representation, as there are a ton of not Capoeria like moves in his repitoire, but again refreshing to see.


Lei Wulong
Chinese Kung Fu
I generalized his style for a few reasons. 1. I couldn't call him a drunken style fighter, as he only has 3 to 5 moves that reflect it. 2. His 5 animal style is directly from Hung Gar, and is one of the things I love about tekken. Lot of movie influence as another poster said, Jackie Chan has done films featuring both of those styles.

Brian Fury
Muy thai/kick boxing
decent enough, backstory bites, cyborg?. Bruce was a better Thai boxer

Paul
Sport Karate/Baji Quan
Akira rip off. Nice counters though, and easier to do than Akira's

Jun
Wushu/aikido

lots of northern style acrobatic wushu, and nice throws,

Steve Fox
Boxing
Hasn't been done in 3d before, very nice!

Craig Marduk
Vale Tudo
The ground and pounder's dream!
I tend to lean toward the Kung Fu types, but when I first played this, I picked Craig Marduk, and mashed my way to a 6 game win streak, using just what I know from Tekkens of the past, and figuring out that the Tackle was nigh unblockable. Usually don't go cheap like that, but it was a highly competitive arcade, and I had never played T4 before and wanted to get a feel for the new characters, Got ran off the machine at first, picked craig and was on for the next 30 min, not bad for $2.00

King
Pro wrestling
the Multi throw nightmare.
If I had time to devote to learning all that madness, I'd play him more often. Ton of moves, multiparts are devastating, but like most big men in fighting games, learning curve is waaaaaaay to high. I put him up there with Akira in terms of learning to get his best stuff off on a regular basis.

Every other character is pretty much a poly swap so I won't go into detail on them.

Lot's of different Fighting Styles represented in Tekken, after 3 they had the edge in variety. Both games are great, but I'm buying a ps2 just for VF4.