Sarah Combos

Yes, this is something worth pursuing. I'll be going to my local tomorrow so I'll experiment.

I throw only as a form of counter attack say after ducking a high punch or a crescent other wise I use the DC also. I hardly use the knee now.

I know that almost anything is capable after a missed high or low crescent from the Chans as I usually counter them with a rising knee.

A DC should work then also.

 

Well, the knee (definitely in VF3, haven't tested in VF4) seems to connect much better after a dodge, and obviously will punish at longer range. It doesn't float as well though, and comes out about as fast as the DC. If Kage's kickflip is DC counterable, then Sarah/Jacky's kickflips should be the same; if the bodycheck is, then the stun palm should be too. What I'd like to know is some stuff against Wolf/Jeff's knee... it was barely DC counterable in VF3.

I like to use the shin slicer instead of a punt kick as a closed stance combo ender... it seems to connect just as often, and looks extremely cool.

 

All the comments I make are related only to VF4. VF3 is a completely different ball game. Especially with Sarah.

With regards to countering Kickflips, Kage is by far the worst due to it's amazing lag time in the air. Unlike Jacky's, Sarah's Kickflip is executed so that she lands further back making her less of a target when you miss and has very little recovery. In fact she has hardly any, her problem comes from the beginning of the move where she has start up animation that slows her down compared to Jacky who's Kickflip is near instantaneous.

In VF4 the Dragon Cannon is THE float move, it's faster has less animation, more range and is far less risky than the knee.

 

Re: hit-throws

Dredging up old posts... sorry, but I thought this was relevent, especially in this Sarah thread.

Vansen wrote:
OK.... Against dumb ass CPU Lion I was able to get out her low kick link thorw out a lot more today then ever before, proximery to your opponent does make a diff I think. I still couldn't execute the throw at the maximum range of her low kick. Anyway I did manage to get her FL K+G = f+P+G move out once against Pai.

I'm getting the flamingo low kick hit throw very consistently now... as long as the low kick hits the throw should come out. Here's some damage control, however, for when the low kick is blocked or you just plain mess up the timing of the hit throw. Just continue with a combo as if you're expecting the hit throw to not come out. For example:

df+PK (or any of the 3 flamingo stance starter kicks), [FL]d+K, P+G, P,d+K

Instead of the P-sidekick, a PG or PPP or another df+PK (to remain in flamingo) are all valid options IMO.


Now for a question:
What's the timing for the [FL]K+G, f+P+G hit throw? The K+G is awfully slow. Should I ignore the animation and just enter f+P+G at the same pace I use for the low kick hit throw or do I have to time the f+P+G with the K+G's hitting my opponent?


(edit)Addendum:
Vansen, I also wanted to ask if you tested the [FL]P+K low (and maybe mid) punch sabaki anymore. I tried using it against Akira's dashing and regular elbow with no luck. Any suggestions?

 

Re: hit-throws

Yupa,

The only way I have ever got the hit throw for [FL]K+G to work is to wait for the kick to hit.

I did do some testing but my results are not conclusive, more testing is needed... *waiting for PS2*..

 

Re: hit-throws

In response to Vansen (as indicated above)...definitely one of the really nice features for the PS2 VF4 is in one of the options for training mode where it indicates input ranges different techniques (via visual bars representing frame range for when you can input to get the intended technique)/versus/images/icons/cool.gif

Gonna be really nice in showing us things like hit-throws!

-Chanchai

 

I've got a question about Sarah's moonsaults. I was using them quite a bit when playing today, but my opponents, regardless of their skill level (a couple newbies, a couple experts) would nail me the second I landed on the ground; no one's getting fooled here. Even a flurry of punches seems to recover quickly enough to hit my Sarah. So what exactly should I be doing?

 

Well, any newbie will punish a moonsault if you do one out of nowhere... what I try to do is moonsault after a knockdown so I have time to jam on P before he comes in.

 

Moonsault

You just have to learn to use it better. If you do it point-blank in front of your opponent, the chances are you'll get hit every time. It's a matter of judgement, the Moonsault is a gamble in that sense. Imagine the arch of the flip and determine if it's worth the risk. If you jump three places away from your opponent you'll land right behind your opponent, anything more and you'll land with your back to them. the best position to Moonsault would be one and a half places away, about the distance there is between you and your opponent when the match starts. You'll land with a fair bit of space between you and you would have effectively changed sides.

Though, if you have trouble doing it on it's own use the Full Spin Dive>Moonsault Combo. The chances are that your opponent will block or even dodge the kick and you'll just follow through and jump right passed them. This is also a good way to escape corners as the Full Spin Dive can't be countered and if done right can go over sweeps.

Remember that it can be performed form the Flamingo Stance so mix up a few kicks and try it then if you like but remember that the Flamingo Moonsault will keep you in the stance, which has it's benefits because you can buffer a Kick Tornado as you land.

The reverse Moonsault also has it's uses. If you do the Moonsault with your back to the opponent then Sarah will do a high Backflip with a much shorter arch which if done with your opponent behind you will bring you right behind them and in better condition than the regular Moonsault. Again, this is a high risk move and should be used as a form of escape or tactical positioning.

The Key to using it well is not in a surprise attack manner. By this I mean that when you Moonsault well and land behind your opponent, your opponent will have the advantage and will just use a TT move. The way to get someone with it is to figure your opponents style and then Moonsault as they perform a move, doing so will give you the advantage.

But, catching someone off guard with the move is rare, the Moonsault should be seen as an escape move or a player position swap move. Don't be looking to counter someone when you land. It's purely for strategic matters.

 

Re: Moonsault

Nice work expaining the use of the moonsault Adio.

Just wondering do you have regular matches against any Lei players?
I want to get more familar with all his fancy arm movement crap and what moves, when blocked, can be counter with an elbow or DC.

 

Re: Moonsault

Nope. It's Wolf, Akira, Jacky, Lau, Kage, Pai, Jacky Akira and Wolf. My scene is pretty stale in terms of variety.

 

Re: Moonsault

Heh, you didn't mention Derrick's Lion...

It's weird no one in London has picked up Aoi. She's very powerful in VF4.

 

Re: Moonsault

Time for some Sarah wall tid bits:-
1. If her dodging kick connects and pushes her opponent into a wall so they bounce off it, a DC will be unblockable (very nice) and I think you can rush up and wall throw.
2. Her quad knee bash (wall throw) can always be followed by a pounce.
3. BRING THE PAIN WALL COMBO:
db+K - fd+PK(FL) - PPP(Wall) - b+K(FL) - u+K
To explain: DC Float to Chop Kick into FL is no big deal, bread and butter Sarah stuff really. If however you think that any of her flurry of 3 punches will get them to at least bounce back of a wall then do it. As soon as they hit the wall, stop and do the rest of the combo. For example if the 1st P bounces them against the wall, don't do the other 2 P. b+K(FL) kick flip instead. If you continue with the P into the wall they fall to far down and can TR or QR the rest of the combo. I did get the full combo against Pai on her stage.
Not as impressive as Akira's 2 hit 60% life gone combo but it got the crowd oh-ing and arh-ing today.

 

Re: Moonsault

He doesn't count. Madin uses Aoi and Vanessa but I haven't seen anyone else use them constantly. The Characters I mentioned before are the main choices, everyone else is used by one key person or not at all.

 

Sarah Strategies

Excellent Vansen. Do you think a PPP variant is guaranteed from a DC? I only do them on wall bounces otherwise I stick to the Chop-Kick-FL: Kickflip combo.

I use Dodge Kick at the start of rounds or when I want to close ground. But now I know it can produce wall stun I'll need to use it more.

Remember that Crash Tornado if not fully charged can give you the same effect as a Dodge Kick. And if your opponent has any common sense and isn't using Aoi, they'll panic.

 

Re: Sarah Strategies

The combo will only work with a wall. With out one your opponent will be pushed too far away from you.

 

Re: Sarah Strategies

Just as I thought, cheers. BTW, are you and Yupa making use of the canned Full Spin Dive combo?

Do any FSD, G cancel and go into a P variant. Great for low attack fiends and does good damage from a move that shouldn't.

Only the first and last parts of PPK will hit a Heavy opponent. So you could do a Switch Kick into FL: Kickflip instead.

All of PPK will hit a Medium. But again the Flamingo path is more rewarding.

And PPP Variant will hit all Light, Medium too from a wall.

I've come to believe that the Spin Heel Sword>Toe Kick-Punt Kick can only be done from a MC. As it always works when I follow up a Guard Crush Sword's stun or MC from the FL: Heel Sword Slash.

Any opinions?

 

Re: Sarah Strategies

I've been shying away from the full spin dive because I always seem to get interrupted when I use it... I know it's just that I'm picking my time to use it poorly, but I hate the way Sarah lands when it's interrupted... (I forget or miss the chance to tech roll... don't even know if it's possible.) Sarah end's up face up/head towards. You can't do a low rising sweep from that position and the rising mule kick is easily blocked or worse dodged around...

I was using the full spin dive against opponents who favor going for mid-level reversals, but I've sinced switched to using the flamingo stance starters (P+K and b+P+K) instead in those situations, and I've had much better luck and more opportunity for higher damage combos/throws. The sabaki properties of the hydro slide kick are a big plus. I like the b+K because it's so quick, but it can be reversed mid-level too.

Unfortunately I've not been using the toe kick-punt as much as I'd like to because of the huge diagonals on the sticks at my arcade. You get a low punch when you hit df+P+K or db+P+K and then the whole combo is fragged... Last time I was playing I was trying to test out the punt kick-side kick in float combos, but I had the same problem with the stick and kept getting the dragon cannon... sucks for me.

A note regarding using Sarah's PPPK combos in floats: If the black book numbers are right, there's no reason to ever do anything but the PPPKickflip anymore... it used to be that the PPPKnee did the most damage, with the PPPKickflip hitting a little lower to the ground for slightly less damage. But in VF4, the PPPKnee does less damage than the kickflip variant. <shrug>

I'll use the PPP-jump kick on occasion against an Akira or Aoi player who I know is trying to reverse the PPPKnee/Kickflip. It sucks so much that kickflips are mid-reversible now... argh.


Vansen, any word on the [FL]P+K sabaki? I'm using it intentionally now against Shang who knows to interrupt my Sarah if I'm in the mood to start throwing from flamingo stance, but I've still only seen it stop low punches. I've never stopped a dashing elbow or a mid-level punch with it...

 

Re: Sarah Strategies

In TB, the knee and kickflip did the exact same damage, with the jumpkick doing a bit less. This makes the knee the best choice against reverses, the kickflip better for damage dealing, and the jumpkick... umm... a great taunt. Going from VirtuaProject, the knee is exactly the same as the jumpkick in VF4, except for its small RO potential. Whoopee.

 

Re: Sarah Strategies

ALL of Sarah's rising knee variants are reversible mid-level now... :-( I'm still in shock and denial over this...

Like what's been said before, Sarah has better float options now with the chop-kick and b+K switch kick into flamingo. PPK is a brain dead float combo that never seems to miss for me...

Yata! =)