Sarah's Flamingo

First time posting here. (waves). I heard a few good things about VF4:EVO, so I went out and bought the disc a few weeks ago. I'm not a newbie to fighting games, but this is the first VF game I've gotten into, mainly because of the great Tutorial modes the game has. What looked like gibberish and unintelligible move priorities in previous versions has been explained very well.

Well, I picked Aoi for my first character to learn. She's not exactly the best player to pick up while fighting against a computer, since she's designed to take advantage of opponent's predictable timing, etc etc. Despite this, I do ok against most opponents, but the moment Sarah goes into Flamingo, I get my buttocks kicked.

YY stance gets me thrown /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif (the computer sometimes throws me before I even get into the full stance, or throws me right after the side step). Counters are incredibly chancy, since Sarah can hit all three levels from Flamingo /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif. Evading either gets me hit by the rest of the attacks when Sarah starts a rush (if I attack after evading) or leaves me stuck guarding so I'm right where I started from /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Evade attacks whiff - Aoi must have the worst evade attack in the game /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif. Aoi's low punch has the reach of a four year old, as well - it usually doesn't even reach Sarah's planted leg. Aoi's high punch rushes give Sarah a counter hit from them about 80% of the time so the rest of Sarah's flamingo string hits me /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif. Most of Aoi's mid moves seem longer in execution than the start of a flamingo rush, so I get beaten there as well. Throws are stopped again by a single kick - as a long time Tekken player I hate the low priority of throws - and they seem to lack range to reach her a lot of the time as well /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif. How the hell do I stop that ponytailed wench from putting footprints on my Aoi the moment she lifts that leg?

And if someone could provide some pointers for dealing with this Flamingo maniac with Lei Fei, it would also be appreciated, since I forsee the same problem when playing with him. I realize these are not exactly the easiest characters to play (Lei Fei reminds me a lot of Eddie from Tekken in the way he can lead you into a stance/combo string from which you have no idea what the hell you're doing with just one extra press of a button at the wrong time), but I always wanted to learn to play Aoi, and I just couldn't pass up the chance to play someone from one of those cheesy 70's Kung Fu Theatre classics, even though I despise any character a 'button masher' would pick.

 

Hi,

I can't help you with Lei except in a general sense, however I think I can help with Aoi (Also my first character in vf4)

OK, for starters flamingo stance is really only effective from close range so if you can keep your distance and she goes into it anyway just pick her off with attacks like , (hits) + or +. This strategy should also work for Lei.

If she get's close, YY stance is still one of your best options, your problem is how you are using low punch. You need to wait until she is starting the kick (it will usually be a kick) before you go into it and it should still work quickly enough for you to counter it. Then depending on the type of kick you might be able to get a guaranteed (hits)+. If you find she is still throwing you before you try to go into YY then duck as if you are going to low punch. She will usually respond with one of her lightning fast mid kicks which you can either reverse (you know it will be mid) ore use YY. I would recommend YY against sarah as the the timing on her kicks varies quite a bit. Another option instead of YY is which will not only deflect kicks and knees but will avoid throws. You can either follow this up with a throw on a hit, or if it is blocked use throws sometimes and use elbows sometimes.

Most people will recommend a low punch against flamingo which is still a valid option with Aoi however she has better options as I have explained above. I know you are having trouble using it but if you wanted to try something similar try (you can use the hit-throw on a counter). This will get caught by some kicks but not all and it is worth having a play with.

Also remember even though it is often hard against flamingo you can still see some attacks coming or at least have a 50% chance of guessing in some cases so reversals are still a valid option as long as you know what you are looking at. Probably best to get a bit more practice before you try these but don't forget about them.

Robin

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll try YY and (again) the next time I'm misfortunate enough to be point blank with Sarah. I was hoping there was some simple 80% guaranteed move that I was overlooking that would smack her down, but everything I've read here in past posts implies that Sarah's stance is one of the best balanced (if not the best balanced) in the game, so I foresee lots of complaining and aborted controller tosses until I gain enough experience to deal with her flailing leg. Trial and error, trial and error. (grumble) I spent most of last night making up a Lei Fei stance flowchart instead of getting a Nike logo imprinted on Aoi's forehead the hard way, but I'm a glutton for punishment, and Aoi will be trying to learn a tooth counter for high and mid kicks sooner or later. They should have a face item that is just a big bootprint for the characters in FT, or even just a black eye. It could replace the Egyptian mask....

Surprisingly, Lei Fei seems to have a much easier time dealing with Flamingo because of his many ways to deal with attacks from all levels and to strike from all levels, but I'm not fighting very high AI foes yet - he seems to be a very spacing intensive character, and what works from half a step away with him doesn't work so well when he's back a full step, or point blank, so I'm getting smushed while trying stupid stuff, mistakenly performing the wrong moves when I get mixed up on my stances, or performing the right moves and falling half a step short and wincing as I see that big heavy counter move coming. At least both my characters will have matching Nike logos on their foreheads.

Oh well. Off to finish off the flow chart.

 

i'm just a fellow scrub-

I think some of your issues are not Aoi specific - e.g., kicks beating throws, well that's a VF fundamental. And some of Sarah's kicks are special highs, meaning they'll beat out a lp cleanly for anybody. And if you are trying to evade FM attacks, take a look at Sarah's movelist, and note that you have to evade in certain direction for some.

As for Aoi, I think her evade attack is actually pretty decent- but I think she's generally better off doing something else after an evade. I also find the YY very useful too against the flamingo. Btw, it's an anti-strike move, not anti-throw, so of course you'll get thrown out of it. If Aoi YY inashis one of Sarah's FM kicks, it's some serious adv for Aoi - stagger, back turned (for some), plus mucho frames, etc. And like the other guy said, f,b+p does wonders against kicks in general. b+k+g sometimes works- too, but is riskier. Not all FM attacks are YYable, but I think Aoi still has the edge. And reversals are always an option for Aoi. And then there are the well placed interrupt type attacks - the aforementioned D,df+p hit throw, as well as the b,df+p and WS,p+k. The b,df+p is particularly good - it's a mid as fast as the hvy weight jabs. Sure FM leaves it's opponent at a disadv, but Aoi is built around the concept of fighting back from a diadv position.

 

I dl'd and looked at Sarah's movelist, and the frame advantages that Flamingo gives.... grumble grumble. I did not know that some of the kicks were 'special high' - that might explain why I'm getting tagged when trying LPs. I guess I'm just going to have to take my beating until I get used to the stance, just like I did with Eddy in Tekken. I haven't used f,b+p much, so that's something new to try as well. Maybe I can hire a hitman to shoot Sarah...but she'd probably go into flamingo and be at like +23 frames vs bullet attacks or something. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

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Shaolin_Hopper said:
Well, I picked Aoi for my first character to learn. She's not exactly the best player to pick up while fighting against a computer, since she's designed to take advantage of opponent's predictable timing, etc etc. Despite this, I do ok against most opponents, but the moment Sarah goes into Flamingo, I get my buttocks kicked.


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You need to understand the options and properties of the moves from Flamingo. Aoi actually has more weapons than most characters to deal with it. In general, the basic tactic against Flamingo is to crouch or evade-crouch dash to Sarah's front side and wait for Sarah to whiff the first move then punish her for it. She usually has advantage when going into the stance so if you try something, Flamingo will likely beat it (even most mids and lows since it is special high) and she will get a free guessing game or then a guessing game. If you want to be aggressive, Aoi's YY will beat most attacks and reward her with a crumple combo against the frequently used kicks (++). Only the Flamingo sweep, kickflip, low hit throw and catch throws can beat it. If you do the YY evade to the correct side, then you can evade everything but the high guard break, sweep and catch throws. Nothing is invincible. Everything is a guess so just guess better.

 

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Everything is a guess so just guess better


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I was afraid it was going to boil down to this. But I've gotten quite a few useful pieces of information already that help explain why I am getting beaten to the punch and getting out-prioritized by this wench. I was unaware that fb+p parried high kicks, and unaware that some of the flamingo kicks would still hit low despite being high hits (heap big cheating Sarah!). Until I read the other thread about Sarah, I had no idea her flamingo hits caused such a frame advantage for her, either. That's quite a nice stance she has. I hope she blows a hamstring out using it. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

FM has disadv as well. In FM, Sarah is limited in movement, can't block, limited in options, and I think hits on her are all counters (not sure). This kind of hurts, considering that she's a lightweight. Imho, as good as FM is, some other stances, like YY, are better.

 

Don't forget her evade FL->............

I think the best options against Sarah flamingo is croush or evade
Some of her moves which lead her to flamingo stance give advantage on block......it's make me so scared!!! /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

ugh, how i hate that backflip... Vega-ish, with the same bs. i always try to stop sarah, before she can get that 3rd kick out, so that the backflip never occurs.

yeah, those FL entering moves are scary. and in addition to the huge frame adv, they tend to have other good attributes- like being sabakis, being special highs, etc.

 

Shou said it right, guess better, and if you guess right, Sarah is pretty much put at a big disadvantage if you play properly. But you do play Aoi, who probably has the best choices when faces against flamingo, you can YY, high reverse, sabaki etc etc. I guess fighting an AI doesn't help the situation at all, you'll see how different fighting real people can be.

Some people misunderstand the fine line between fighting AIs and real people:
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AmunRa said:
i'm not trying to brag or anything(honest), but i'm not impressed with oshu's sarah or black widow. i've fought them both on multiple occasions and they don't even come close to beating me

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WELL, I beg to differ.

 

Agreed. Agreed so much its in my sig.