Sega doing what they do best -- pissing people off...

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Amen.

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Alright. I'll chill - it's all good. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

But let me say this though. Yamato mentions that Chibita has x many losses, etc and has been chugging away with loads of money invested into the game. Well, had there not been any card system, Chibita would have still been there playing just as much and spent just as much money. The card system is icing on the cake. All of the great players would be playing with this intensity anyway.

Bottom line is, Sega will indeed piss some people off. And chances are people are still going to play the game. A lot.

cheers,

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Thanks for the info about J-sky GP, it's good to hear.

And just a small thing to add, don't you think that the VF.net system gives you mor incentive to spend that little extra bit of money and time on VF4?

*People even cheat with fake cards to rank up*

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Yamato:
Yes, absolutely. I'm going to have to say that 99% of most players wouldn't have played the game as much. In fact, I'm going to say that Sega would not have made NEAR as much money on VF4 had they not had the card system.

Not only does it keep people coming back, but there are many times that you'll sit there forever, doing a same dan-level battle until one of you goes up or down -- this wouldn't happen w/o the card system.

not only that, the card system makes it possible for you to know who you're fighting. I"ve met loads of people that I'd have never thought twice about speaking too. Allows you to meet up more, and fight more. I think in many aspect, the card system is what gave VF4 the boost it needed. I think every yen Am2 invested in it was well spent.

Also to note, that iMode VF.NET is the only one for August. PC & J-Sky they say will be ready in the fall -- that's not helping my mood very much. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

I liked you earlier point about blizzard games and it reminds me of something else that was floating around:

People who are obsessed about building and maintaining ranking sound like people who play RPG's and keep going until they reach level 99 or until they have every item. They're missing the point. Or else the ranking is just a side effect for the REAL reason they're playing, which is because the game is fun.
If I put 20 bucks into the machine and cannot rank up from 6th to 7th dan, am I mad because I don't have the arbitary Sega-made ranking of 7th dan, or am I mad because I didn't beat my opponents?
Does anyone else out there give a shit about one more 7th dan?
Come to think of it, in any competitive game where stats are kept, do people give a crap about anyone who isn't in the top ten, or at least the top fifty?

Chibita and Kyasao have something to worry about because they are in genuine danger of losing a rank in the top 20 or top 50 spots in Japan. So maybe they have a right to be mad. The other 999,950 spots are filled with people that nobody recognizes and cares about, so those 999,950 people have to fight for a specific rank, and not a specific slot in the top 50. I.e. they're playing because they really want to be haou or teioh, not because they think they have a prayer of becoming one of the best 100 players in japan.

If that's their big goal, it's going to be just as attainable in EVO as it ever has been. But really that shouldn't be their goal. If people stop playing over this, Sega didn't fuck up by messing with the ranking system, they fucked up by failing to make a game that's worth playing on its own.

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

I think everyone's aware that the ranking system is a bonus, but I think you're missing the point -- the ranking system ADDS (a lot at that) to the fun of the whole game. It's a very intrical piece of the game as well, for the reasons stated above. Think of it as a set with the game. It's the first of it's kind, and the did a good job.
Take it away, and you're taking away a piece of what a lot of people (me included) enjoy.

As for people giving a shit about ranks -- yes, many people do -- me for one. You at least have a ballpark figure of who you're playing against. When I go to High Tech Land, I generally only try to take a pop at 10-dan or higher fighters, just to test my skills. I rarely know what their faces look like, so the card system allows me to do that.

I think VF4 would've been a very successful game w/o the card system, but they definitely wouldn't have made as much do, even excluding the 500 yen per card price. It was a great idea, and sinked a few more hooks into the not-so-easily addicted.

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Well, granted that the ranking system adds to the game, okay.
Did Sega take that away? Nope, not at all.
I guess what I should have asked was "does having your old rank intact really add to the game?" For super competitive players like chibita or kyasao, sure. For the 100,000 1st - 9th dans... Well I certainly can't see a first dan throwing up his hands and wailing.

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

Granted 100,000 of non high profile players aren't revered by others, the question is do you have to be a "somebody" to have your thoughts and inputs count? The lesser known players shouldn't care about their records cuz they aren't good to be a legend in the game? So what if they aren't the top ranked person in the game or in the arcade? The wins count on their record adds to their enjoyment of the game aka pride.
It doesn't matter what rank they are, they can at least tell themselves that they are AT LEAST better than the people that are ranked below them. It might seem like a little thing, but like the saying goes "winning is everything". Pride does funny things to people, no matter how small the joy or where it comes from.

 

Re: Sega doing what they do best -- pissing *you* off...

they can still say that in EVO.

 

Gaijin im sorry man. I know how you feel. I lost my Stormlord Jacky when my PS2 corrupted my savefile, and i about cried ,lol /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif , And this was the HOME version. I can only imagine how much more it would suck on the arcades, where money was actually involved.
As for comparing it to Diablo II, i feel that this isnt a good comparison. I mean it is ridiculously easy to get a high level character in that game and get some good stuff. So when a reset comes its no big deal. I stopped playing that shit because of it, i mean they could even duplicate items at one point. AND you dont have to pay Blizzard squat to play on their server, so you really dont have much room to complain. A better analogy would be if Everquest had a total reset. There would be a lot of pissed off people then, not to mention an ass-load of cancelled subscriptions.
I do think that Sega has made a ballsy move with this, and I only hope that it doesnt come back to bite them in the ass.

 

This is much ado about nothing. Let me first say that I understand what those of you who have an investment in your records are feeling. If I had gotten into making a sand castle and got pretty near finishing I would be pissed at the waves or some low-life surfer for washing it out. But the fun is in the playing the game and it will be fun to do it all over again. Especially for the high ranking players, it gives them a goal to work to, get there quicker this time, try to get there without all the losses you had - due to inexperience - from last time. They can try to get a higher number of excellent rounds against inexperienced players.
I think that only a weak player who was lucky/struggling to go high up the ladder and who happens to be immature would cry over this spilt milk. This is an excuse to make omlettes, if you know you can get there, getting there is half the fun. Ofcourse there are those like me who play only to get better, I wouldn't care. Life hands you a lemon...

 

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I mean it is ridiculously easy to get a high level character in that game and get some good stuff.

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Um, only if you're playing *softcore* where it didn't matter. High level *hardcore* (one life - you die, you die. No coming back. Everything you have gone) characters prior to the expansion were no easy walk in the park - it took skillful dedicated play.

cheers,

 

ChugAndPLug: Well said. Given that it takes months to go from 10-dan to Ha-ou, I think those guys have a more legitamte bitch than me (my highest character is 8-dan). However, we all worked hard, for less than a year, and NOBODY (not even Chibita) is Emporeror yet. If they did it after 2 years, I think it might be a different story... just seems way too quick for a total upgrade.

If I breezed my way or lucked my way through, I might have a different stance, but I can't remember more than a handful of same dan-level fights that were a breeze. I had to bust my balls for all of them... to do it AGAIN to get back to where I was just seems retrogressive.

 

Foondogg, your timely comparison to Kumite reminds me of a big reason why some of the players will be pissed at starting over....when you're a Ha-oh, it's other Ha-ohs that will come to challenge you, or characters with around the same rank. When you start over, you'll have to go through the torture of seeking out and playing those 1-dan players.

Come on guys, how do you feel when playing Kumite on the PS2 with a High King record and some 2-dan CPU challenges you?? The feeling must be infinitely worse when you know you have to go through the whole ordeal again. I think people like Chibita would enjoy the game regardless of VF.net...but more so when playing against peope of their own level.

 

You had some balls if you played Hardcore mode then. Wouldnt be long before some PKing asshole comes by and tries to kill you with his hacked/duped items... but i digress

Gaijin, you mentioned that Sega is not giving any discounts or anything to the arcades that already have Ver. C machines. That just seems to me like a poor business decision. I mean Ver. C is doing really well over there, why would any arcade want to pay full price for a new arcade cabinet, when they have a whole bunch of close substitutes that are already selling well. I just dont see the incentive for the arcades to get Evo. I know that they want to be the guys to carry the next big thing and dont want to get behind the curve, but that can only go so far. In the end, I think Sega will have to offer some kind of discount/buy back option if they want to get Evolution in the arcades.

 

Whoa ok I have a question here for those of you who know about these high level players: How often do they lose now? I mean, I know EVO has changed some things in the fighting system, but they're still going to be really really good, right? Starting out 0/0, how many losses is Chibita going to accumulate? How many people can beat this guy now? I mean, I'm sure when he was beginning he lost a lot. But I think that some player's W/L ratios are going to be insane, like the High Kings in the PS2 verision (99% win percentage etc.) I think that is what will define many players in the VF:Evo game, win %, and not ranking, because it will be a much better indicator of skill than ranking in the beginning. And I have to disagree with the Diablo example. It doesn't work, you don't pay every time you play. You pay once for the game, not continouosly. The Everquest example is much more appropriate, and that would be suicide if they reset all the accounts. They offer so much support to their highest playing and paying players on the Legends server, their smart about their customer base. But EQ has tons of competition, like UO and Asheron's Call, which could be just as good as EQ if they had as many people.


However, Virtua Fighter 4 has no equal in the realm of fighting games. I get the feeling Sega saw the success of their game and read the reviews that said "The best most deep fighting game ever" and were like, "Well, we make the best game, so no matter what we do, everyone is going to want to play it, because there's no equal to it." And their right. Is there a card system for Tekken 4, or any other fighting game for that matter? People will be pissed in the beginning, but then they'll look at the VF4:Evo machine and their desire to PLAY will override their anger about losing their rank. And I also don't think people will boycott Evo and just play 4. Who wants to play old versions of things? Nobody. There will be outcry at first, but I believe Sega will win in the end, big time.

 

I agree, while a lot of people will be pissed, even the ones that jokingly say they're not going to play Evo will wind up playing more.

As for the no discount -- apparantly the game is a ROM upgrade only, but it will cost the same as a new game. What that likely means is your get a new GD-ROM, swap it wit the Ver. C ROM, and change the signs/posters, etc. Ver. C I believe was a free upgrade, or maybe included a small service fee. The Evo ROMS will likely run about $2000, so you don't have to buy a full new cabinet, which is good, as I don't know of any other Naomi game on the market using the same ones as VF4. So, there is a bit of a discount if I'm right -- sorry if that was misleading.

For the record about Chibita -- in the 1 week trial, I saw him once, on about day 5. He had 94% wins, and was 2-dan. There was only one other 2-dan around that I saw, but never saw the two fight together. There were a couple of shodan's. The highest I got was 6-kyu.