Setting up and exploiting staggers

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Jul 28, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In VF upon hitting a crouch defending opponent with an elbow or sidekick they are pushed back into a stagger animation and seem to lose initiative. What are my options after succesfully staggering an opponent? Right now I only have VF2 available but plan on purchasing a Dreamcast w/ VF3tb following the forthcoming price reduction in August. Using Sarah for instance if I mix up pokes with PK and P,d+K canned combos and use d+P > f+P and d+P > d/f+KK I have some success with coaxing a stagger from an opponent and followup with a quick PK. What do you suggest I do? I've read that struggling out of staggers is possible, what are the methods of doing this (is it effective)? And how should I react to an opponent capable of doing so?

    How is staggering different in VF3 and VF4 (if you know)?


  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

  3. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    for sarah in vf2, P,K,u+P and d+K,K (u+P) is guaranteed after most staggers. those are your most damaging followups. i think PPPb+K may be, too, not sure - i can never remember if the first P has to mC or MC for the kickflip to connect. running up and throwing is also an option.

    elbow staggers can easily be gotten by elbowing low recovering moves, such as whiffed low punches, blocked sweeps and the bryants' d+K+G. otherwise, you'll just have to poke at them until you get one - how you manage that is entirely up to you and your opponent. although, P(KG),f,f+P is evil.

    vf3 staggers are shorter. nothing is guaranteed, ever. throwing is a better choice of stagger followup in vf3, compared to vf2.
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "vf3 staggers are shorter. nothing is guaranteed, ever. throwing is a better choice of stagger followup in vf3, compared to vf2."

    Maybe this is a stupid question, but then why even bother trying for staggers in VF3 if you aren't guarenteed any followups?

  5. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    Re: Setting up and exploiting staggers *DELETED*

    Post deleted by uk_kid
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    OK... So then you are saying that there are guarunteed followups in the form of throws? Can you guys please just provide a few examples of how you setup and/or exploit a stagger situation in VF3 with any character? I mean how does a match flow? I'm also interested in the options of the defender upon being staggered... I'm just a scrub looking for simples answers. :)


  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    uhhh...well, because you still have iniative over the opponent, and you're free to try anything. any situation where you have iniative is preferable to the opposite, right?

    nothing is guaranteed does not mean nothing will work.
  8. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    you really don't like the word 'initiative', do you....
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    OK, I thought you meant by an absence of guaranteed followups that an opponent could potentially struggle out of the stagger animation and then we'd be back at square one. That's not the case then and rather you guys are saying that the staggered player is still at a frame disadvantage (whatever you guys call it) and I have initiative which is what I figured from the beginning...:eek:)

    Remember I chose my nick for a reason! :p

    So given that, does the following sequence of events seem plausible:
    Akira manages to stagger an opponent with a dashing elbow, dashes forward and connects a super dashing elbow that floats and gets a nice reward in a float combo. The opponent has had enough of that and manages to struggle out of all subsequent stagger animations and regain control of their character before Akira can combo. So in anticipation of a sucessful struggle the Akira player, in his genius, dashes forward and connects a throw. The opponent has had enough of that... and begins buffering the appropriate throw escape motions as soon as he has been staggered resulting in successful throw escapes. Akira again, diabolical genius and all that stuff can now mixup throws or attacks at will after a stagger against his conditioned opponent with remarkable success. ??

    What about staggering and waiting for anticipated throw escape, throw escape comes out as a whiff, and the Akira can punish based on the whiffy animation thing (is that just a punch in VF3 or is there a specific animation?)??



  10. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    blugh. i swear there must be some fucked up mental block in my brain that prevents me from spelling it right.
  11. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    for some moves and throws that stagger/stumble in vf3, it is actually possible for the staggeree to recovery before the staggerer, but usually it's only within a few small frames.

    all of your hypothetical situations were correct, including simply waiting for whiffed throw escapes.
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Mmm.. that is really cool. I'm growing more and more appreciative of this game's gameplay design. It is kind of clunky, but in a very beautiful way. :p


  13. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    The example you gave before using Akira is a good illustration of how it works. If the oppt. whiffs a throw escape, Akira can bodycheck, or 3-hit combo (to reduce this risk, you can use the guard/throw escape or escape/guard/throw escape techniques, but these may not work in VF4). On the other hand, if Akira is on the receiving end, and he recovers quick enough, he can hit the attacker's throw attempt as the oppt dashes in to throw.

    Another example would be if a player gets used to recovering and then using guard/throw escape to avoid Kage's b+P+G or d+K+G 50/50 game, Kage can switch to b,b+K+G (quick low attack in 3, slow in 4) or f+P+G, so the guessing game continues.

    Similar situations can be applied to break guards, since the victim will try to recover and guard most of the time.


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