should vfx be simpler

Re: Case closed

Yah! TOTALLY! But, like, there's more people playing, and so, like, more people must be coming back (or at least, like, came back) to play the MK and SF games, and so they MUST be better designed and just FUCKIN-A BETTER than VF is! Ditch the VF DUUUUUUUDES! Capcom VS games is WHERE IT'S AT! YEAAHHH!!! CASE TOTALLY CLOOOOSED!

 

Re: Case closed

Um more players doesn't make one game better than the other at all. VF is the case in point.

SF and MK both take skill to be good at and I dont mean button mashing skill. The experts at the games are incredible.

CrewNYC

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Re: Case closed

"Wow! So Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter (vs. games and all) must be the greatest games EVER MADE! Oh, like, I am so over with VF. I'm ditching these VF losers and playing with the COOL CROWD over at the MK and SF machines! Case, like, TOTALLY CLOSED, dude! YEE HAAHHHH!"

Hey, don't bash em just because you don't like em'!
I have friends who think VF is a shit game. It all comes down to personal tastes and preferences.

By the way, I wasn't just refering to VF. as long as a player thinks the game is well designed, he'll keep playing it. Even in the wake newer games. I know people who still play Sfz2. While Zero 3 is out, they still prefer to play Zero2...cause it's fun for them.

Remember what I also said, 80% of your profits comes from 20% of ur returning consumers.


SummErs' 'REALLY HATE LAW N ECONOMICS EXAMS!!!'
n' misses his gf VERY MUCH/images/icons/frown.gif

 

Re: Case closed

Winston, your sarcastic point taken and all... But as much as I despise MvC2 with a passion, I have to admit it's just a different style. There's a chance it'll die, a good chance, but I still respect the game on the levels that it's different. Less "hand-skill" is required in that game in a sense, but at the same time, it's completely about setups or so it seems. I don't like the game though because it just gets boring for me.

There are still the MK players. They're probably about as populated as the Western VF players, but there's still a hardcore following for MK2 and Ultimate MK3 (I didn't really like that one personally). As for SF games, Super Turbo and Hyper Fighting have stood the test of time from my perspective.

Anyways, I'm assuming you're just trying to mock the points of some members by taking it 100% literally and sarcastically making what appears to be a bad statement. However, this goes back to why I can't say a game is designed better or worse... MvC2 was designed different. For some, better. For others, VF is their bag, but they are completely different games.

There's a good hardcore following for X-men vs. SF I may add.

We all know my VF bias. But it doesn't make me look down on all other games. I'll measure the games to my ideals, but more importantly my experiences with them.

 

Re: sta783

Actually, while Chibita did some things I'd just never seen before, and was very fast (heh heh...I like the speed ), he was not the best person I came across when I was in Japan. Maybe I was just a bit disappointed because of all the talk...he beat me 6-3 out of the games we played (heck yeah I kept track ), but none were exactly blowouts. I came across an Akira player who beat me more consistently, and a Sarah player who, though I went even with him the first couple of days, thoroughly cleaned my clock the rest of the trip (6 weeks...ouch).

At the time (2 years ago, keep in mind), the latter two players struck me as more skilled...Chibita was just fast, with plenty of practice (all I ever really was, which is probably why I dealt better with him that the others).

 

Re: sta783

All of us would stand up to the Tier 1 Japanese players.

Not all of us, some of us. Some people learn faster, while some others won't. As Bungle said, some players never learn, to which I agree, more or less.

After playing the game for 4 years now we simply have the ability to adapt like that.

But that same 4 years were spent in a very different way, in Japan and in over here in the U.S. We were playing perhaps 30 competent players at most. Those Japanese guys were lucky enough to play 30 different competent players everyday.

like the SF series whom many players became very good at in the US.

It's not a fair comparison to make between SF and VF scenes in the US. As you know, player base of SF series in the US is huge compared to that of VF. In another words, top American SF players are comparatively closer (if not better) to the top Japanese SF players.

If the competition is better it's only fair to assume that they would reach the same level of play as the best players.

I agree with you on this point. See...I'm not saying that Japanese players are inherently better at VF than rest of the people in the world. It's the size of the VF scene they've got over there. It's the quality of the practice time they spent in the past 4 years.

As I learned from my piano lesson too, I can practice from morning till midnight, but without a right practice method, that long practice session does me no good.

 

Re: Case closed(SF1 and more)

Having played SF1 quite a bit in recent days (ahhhhh
nostalgia) I can say with no hesitation that it is
not a well designed game. It is my opinion that
every 8 and 16 bit fighting game that appeared to used
the concept behind the SF2 fighting system is acually
using the source code of Street Fighter 1. I'm
being a little facetious here. But the point is the same.
SF1 equals icky!

Oh yeah, I was a pretty mean MK player in my day but by the
third incarnation I gave it up. The game was being designed
in the worst way. Taking tips and requests from Usenet readers.
MK creators would lurk in the newsgroups and then take the
"best" suggestions and make them real, test the feasability of
it and then release the game. brrr. Animalities, anyone?
Whenever a hoax post becomes a real component in a videogame
I think the designers are having a bad day.


I am very thankful that the VF series seemed to be created in
a vaccuum. Players play, creators create. Remember the failed
tetsujin game. Boy that got big, didn't it?

GE

 

Re: Case closed(SF1 and more)

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Having played SF1 quite a bit in recent days (ahhhhh
nostalgia) I can say with no hesitation that it is
not a well designed game

<hr></blockquote>


Hehe, yeah, pretty much what I was pointing in the direction of, but good to hear a clarification. Hence, my Time Killers comment (I think those that have ever touched even the arcade version remember how awful that game was). As for the source code for SF1... hmm, which games are we talking here? There were quite a few back then that I really enjoyed. Must've been a lot of cleaning up in the code.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Oh yeah, I was a pretty mean MK player in my day but by the
third incarnation I gave it up...Remember the failed
tetsujin game. Boy that got big, didn't it?

<hr></blockquote>


Yep... I ended up ending my MK playing days when 3 came out. It just didn't have the raw feel MK2 had... combos especially (the move from more natural combos into the scripted combos system, let's all jump HP). Run button could've been alright, especially since a lot of MK2 matches ended up being a turtle war. Despite the huge amount of players that hated MK3, there was actually a good hardcore following of Ultimate that still exist actually. I'll compare it to the Metallica following... Older stuff was better (MK1 and 2), MK3 was pretty much the "Load" of the MK world in which many fans couldn't stand it (though it all sounded good on paper) and then Ultimate ended up being the "ReLoad," an album that I guess was forgiveable by its audience.

As for Anarchy in the Nippon, I haven't touched that game and am actually curious as to the response of the game. That was the game you were referring to right? Built completely on the suggestions of VF players.

 

Re: Case closed(SF1 and more)

As for the source code for SF1... hmm, which games are we talking here? There were quite a few back then that I really enjoyed.

heh, I was only kidding. It's just that some were
so unbelievably crappy that you would think they just
made new characters and shoved them in.


As for Anarchy in the Nippon, I haven't touched that game and am actually curious as to the response of the game. That was the game you were referring to right? Built completely on the suggestions of VF players.

well, the way I heard the story was that some VF tetsujins
got together and designed their own game. Basically created
around their preferences, the things that had cost them rounds
and they didn't like and the things that they did well and
wanted to keep doing well. A very inbred game.

GE

 

Re: Case closed(SF1 and more)

"Hence, my Time Killers comment"

OMG!
Somebody besides me actually knows about that game!
It wasn't a very good game but it had one very nice feature.

It was the ultimate newbie bashing game!
Reminds me of the good old days of zero second rounds, total butchery, and armless victories.

-Emil

 

Re: Case closed(SF1 and more)

Hehe, I can imagine Anarchy in the Nippon being a very "inbred" game hehehe. Still curious about how it turned out.

As for Time Killers... man, I don't know how much I did play that game, but I have to admit it was awful. I guess it was father for the super KO though... Chop off your opponent's head early in the round and win!!! Oh yeah, the "interesting" controlw scheme... Head at the top, then it had Tekken controls under... Right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg... It was a bad game. That one was probably based on the SF1 source code given how frustrating the controls were in that game as well as the "quality" of the animation. At least it was a game where you could play as Musashi, but not in a good way...

 

Re: sta783

which character does yami-yodare play as?

Kage

who do the other 'top 5' japanese players play as?

Actually all characters are represented among those Tier1 players.

PLEASE do not say jacky...

I don't understand this. Jacky is hard to win with among those crowds. Since many people use Jacky, there are definitely more anti-Jacky tactics researched than any other characters.

in what ways do the very best japanese players differ from the likes of yourself and hiro?

Yomi. Understanding of the game, such as knowing which move beats what move after this and that. It's not something you can go "whoa" and "ahh" by looking at them play. I can do fast KS and cool combos just like they can; but there is a real big difference deep down.

 

Re: sta783

>on a different subject, is chibita lion considered the greatest vf3 player in the world?

*snort*
thank the likes of NYCat (Art) and Ice-9 (Jeff) for building and maintaining this (overhyped to the max, near hystrionic, false) myth of the VF god chibita, master of the VF universe.
i find it amusing that much of the blithering on about chibby came from people witnessing the java tea tapes. even a few rounds off that tape were vidcapped and uploaded so that we could all witness his godliness.
one round that was never spoken about or uploaded was the chibmeisters match against kurita, who utterly and completely squished chibita 3-1 in very fast and embarrasing manner, eliminating chibita from the tournament.
godeater! can i send it to you for uploading? if you do, we'll also get to see akira's head momentarily shrink to the size of his fist. i kid you not.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: sta783

sorry for slagging jacky - a habit i've picked up from the many 'jerky' haters out there (on the net, this site, etc.)
i definitely do not in any way doubt that (some) jacky players in japan are extremely effective, and not in a cheap way.

 

Re: sta783

I don't know if there's anything cheap about Jacky at all. I think the thing about Jacky is that he's simply just easier to pickup and play against beginners. At the beginner level, the Jacky players are probably the ones that are likely to win such matches because of the ease of Jacky's execution combined with his effectiveness. However, Shota brings up a good point about experts using Jacky. It's not that easy to do and so many people who play the game at a high level (if not all of them) have a general idea of what to expect and how to react against Jacky.
So if I ever seemed like I hate Jacky or consider him cheap, I don't. Just easy to pickup and that's all. At least easy to pickup basics from him.

 

Re: sta783

cheap or not, you generally don't have to work as hard or risk as much with jacky as you do with other characters. he has a whole lot going for him and not very much against.

and he was a piggy piggy pig in ob. just like akira was.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"