Shun Di: Final Tuned

thanks to myke and noodalls for finally getting around to the shun translation. good info i hadn't seen before.

i'm still quite disappointed in the increased execution speed of the chouwan. its the execution speed itself that bothers as much as the flowcharts that have been rendered useless by its implementation. chouwan could be used as a pretty reliable flowchart after CH b,f+p, CH k+g, etc because of the +3 those moves put you at and now its gone /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif. however i like that the minimal disadvantage remains if the opponent blocks the chouwan while crouching.

also very very surprised to see that the DB+p has been toned down. i was actually hoping for it to get beefed up!! aside from its huge range and ability to be the only uninterruptable attack after shuns d+p connected, the stats on the move were horrible and gave little to no opportunity to press the attack. i don't mind that its easier to stuff but i was hoping for slightly better frame stats on the move to allow for some more versatile options in shuns crouch game.

i haven't really noticed the decrease in the use of d+k's yet. hard to judge whether its evasive ability has been toned down because it apparently remains as popular as ever in all the shun vids i've seen. will have to judge when i get a chance to play the game. i just hope to hasn't lost its principle properties such as its ability to duck elbows. i guess the increased disadvantage on block was to discourage shuns from abusing it to get out of nitaku situations though the move was already -16 and hence punishable by shoulder rams if anticapated. going beyond that would make it knee counterable /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. that seems kind of harsh even for a move thats not so hard to connect but i can live with it.

don't see why the backevade's were toned down. i don't think any good shun abuses them because the danger of whiffing them can set you up for bigger damage then if they had connected. plus after seeing tsunodei and SHU's shuns in action i don't see how they were toned down either. they were both using the backevades very well.

really glad the d+p has been strengthened. that would probably put it on par with all the regular d+p's in the game /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. while i'm elated to hear that, it also seems that shuns will start to abuse d+p more and that would be crap because i never had a problem with him having one of the worst d+p's in the game. his unconventional style is what made shun so appealing to me and strengethening his generic d+p while weakening his unique moves makes it sound like sega are wanting shun to play more...........conventionally. somewhat disappointing but hopefully i'll be proven wrong. given that his only 15 frame mid moves are p+k and the new f+p (if you choose it), i don't see any significant changes coming about from this change anyway, although i'm glad there's a opportunity to use the p+k series more often now. hopefully its stats might have been beefed up a little.

i really like the changes to drunken stance. most of these changes were evident when i was watching tsunodei's shun recently. the faster DS throw and SS inot normal stance sure will help a lot. even more helpful will be the full circular DS p (was semi circular in evo. if its still maintained its special high properties as well that would make it a very powerful option from DS, esp with the increased speed of the throw and the DS to mix it up with). too bad there aren't any notes on b,f+p+k /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif. i wanted to hear more about its application in matches, if any.

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The execution is quick, and it's a mid hit, so the B2 + is easy to incorporate into strings. Also, it can be used after a +, so it's can be used as a new option to attack.

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i'm very interested in why they mentioned this. because this would imply that the b+p is a special high attack and that the d+p is giving you about +4 on normal hit (to the best of my knowledge in order to make a special high attack beat lows, you still need enough frame advantage so that it would have been uninterruptable even if it were a mid. e.g to make vanessa's OS F+k uninterruptable with a low, you still need to be at about +5 i think). additionally i said normal hit and not CH because the d+p is already +4 on CH and this article just mentioned that d+p stats have been beefed up.

 

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i'm very interested in why they mentioned this. because this would imply that the b+p is a special high attack and that the d+p is giving you about +4 on normal hit (to the best of my knowledge in order to make a special high attack beat lows, you still need enough frame advantage so that it would have been uninterruptable even if it were a mid. e.g to make vanessa's OS F+k uninterruptable with a low, you still need to be at about +5 i think). additionally i said normal hit and not CH because the d+p is already +4 on CH and this article just mentioned that d+p stats have been beefed up.

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Think + is a mid move actually. A 16 frame high move would suck although I haven't seen it being used yet so who knows but it makes sense that it would be a mid.

 

oh crap you're right i didn't read that part. my bad! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

for some reason i kept thinking that the first hit is semi circular and high and the second hit is mid. but heck wow a two hit mid series with the second hit being uncounterable (i think) and the first hit a semi circular. that would rock! definitely a fair replacement for the + (though i'd still be hard pressed to get rid of the original + /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

 

Both the change moves seem so good... I've wanted an elbow since I started playing shun, but the old 6p string can work so well... and the 4p on CH can do a lot of damage, and yet a mid mid safe string!!!

I like the changes overall. Obviously I'm sad to see the chowan and low kick toned down, but he seems to get enough advantages to make up for it and then some.

 

The change move is
(half circular) High, Mid.

 

The DS is full circular now? I assume it's still special high, but is it still +2 on block?

Also, someone mentioned that his (olde) string has been strengthened. How so?

 

It's not special high anymore.

 

noooooooooooooooo

 

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Srider said:

It's not special high anymore.

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/versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif damn.
also what sikyo said. does the move retain its frame stats or have they also been weakened?? in any case while its a blow to shun i don't think its that big a deal seeing as how the DS throw has been beefed up so that should take care of dodgers hopefully /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

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Also, someone mentioned that his (olde) string has been strengthened. How so?

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the old +,, is all guaranteed now if the first hit connects so its a combo string, great for punishing.

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The +, change move is
(half circular) High, Mid.

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good to know i wasn't insane in assuming the first part was high. now i know where i read it /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. however that does make this choice a little easier.

 

Hrmm..I am completely out to lunch on if shun, overall, has been upgraded or not...anybody with play experince comment?

 

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Hrmm..I am completely out to lunch on if shun, overall, has been upgraded or not...anybody with play experince comment?

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I've only been down at the arcade for two sessions so this probably won't mean too much but he seems to be improved a little. His new moves are worthwhile: +, is good for countering your opponent and ++ is an ultra speedy way to get into DS (which is a good partner to + which is a pretty slow). The worst change seems to be the chouwan getting nerfed but if you can adapt then it shouldn't be much of a problem. You can still get a good amount of drinks with Shun in FT but you will have to change your drinking style to get the most out of FT - learning to finish the round with a sidekick helps alot /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Also now that I've actually played FT I want to make a correction to an earlier post I made - I said that the ++ was a special high move but got the wrong move. The move I thought was a special high was actually his +,, which is a mid, high move which is why it beat low punch /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif. Sorry for any confusion. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Shadowdean said:

Hrmm..I am completely out to lunch on if shun, overall, has been upgraded or not...anybody with play experince comment?

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I would have to say that, if you can take advantage of his new moves, especially , then Shun definitely feels powered up.

My old win percentage was about 52%, and now I am around 62%. I have learned to play a much more frame-conscious game and all but, overall I feel "stronger" overall when I play, I would say.

The guaranteed at -13 (if you have it selected) is totally killer, and if you can read stance and combos (i.e. yellow or red) chouwan is not really weakened down too much. I do think that there is quite a reliance on drinks now, even moreso than before. That said, if you can get chouwan, , you can take nearly half bar, and near the walls you can get up to +, , (soul shattering damage).

The throw out of choukarou connects much faster and will get evaders 100% of the time now. The throw from back-turned actually connects now. out of choukarou is now fully circular. / out of choukarou now sets you back to neutral, which kicks ass. And his on hit gives you more of an advantage than before.

I would think that his overall game has improved quite a bit, so long as you can make use of his changes. I do not think there is anything that I used to be able to do but cannot anymore.

 

<font color="white"> Shun-Di </font>

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<font color="white">Overview</font>

With the new moves and changes made to Shun-Di in FT, his drunken style moves are now even more confusing, and more complete, making Shun-Di a stronger and more unique character. On the contrary, some of his moves have been weakened since the last version. Moves such as his and which were his main tools in the previous version, have been weakened in FT. However, the new moves that Shun has gained are able to fill in those gaps. By considering both his new moves and those that have been renewed, you can create an effective offense with Shun. By weakening those two strong moves, Shun-Di must now use a more diverse moveset in his matches, this will make him a more interesting character compared to before.

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<font color="white">Change moves</font>


A1 Ousougeki


A full circular high attack. The move executes rather quickly, and it forces the opponent to face sideways on hit. It main use is to counter the opponent's evades, but there are other uses for this move.

A2 Tenshinhaisyu ~ Suisenkansyu


A high->mid attack. The first hit is a half circular high attack that has a small recovery on guard. The second hit requires 6 dps or more, and it's useful to use in combos.

B1 Kasenchyuugeki


Old from Evo. This move has the same execution speed as a standing , and can be followed up by a variety of strings.

B2 Suikoubougetsu


15 frame execution mid attack. This attack causes a stagger on a crouching opponent, and it gives Shun a large frame advantage. In addition, depending on the foot position, this move possesses evasive properties. It is able to avoid moves such as or . It's also important to note that this move is uncounterable on guard. This makes this move an important asset for Shun in his close up games.

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<font color="white">New Moves and Key Changes</font>

– This string now requires 21 dps to fully combo compared to the 17 from before. This also applies to .

– The effect that dps has on this move has been changed. This move now knocks down on MC with 23 dps or more, or HC with 15 dps or more.

– This move now does not knock down on LC, MC requires 10 dps or more, but knocks down always on HC.

– The execution is now slower by 1 frame. The recovery on guard has also been increased to -6. Hitting a crouched opponent now puts Shun at -2.

– A new mid->high attack. The second hit knocks down on MC or higher, which can be followed by a combo.

+ – Shun now gets 4 dps for hitting this attack. It's good to use this move to gain more dp after K.O.ing the opponent with .

+ – A new two hit high attack with good execution speed and reach. Shun goes into drunken stance afterwards. The key point for this move is that Shun is at advantage of +6 or +10 whether on guard or hit, and leaves Shun in drunken stance, so it allows him to continue to attack if this move connects in anyway.

(Drunken Stance) – This move is now a full circular high, but it is no longer a special high.

(Drunken Stance) + – This throw now catches the opponent quicker, so it makes the nitaku game from drunken stance stronger than before.

(Drunken Stance) or – This movement now leaves Shun at a normal standing position, so the chance of Shun evading a move and then getting hit by a follow up move is now less than before.

(Sit Down Position) ++ - Now Shun can only get 2 dps from doing this move. Similar to laying down and drinking, Shun can only get a maximum of 4 dps after K.O. by doing this.

(While Running) + - You can now execute Shun's + by running without having to have 8 dps. However, neither version now sobers at all.

++ - The drinking part gives Shun one dp and also puts Shun in a crouching state, so he can avoid high attacks while drinking. After the first makes contact, he can input for two move mid hits, the last of which knocks down on hit. Doing all three 's requires strict timing.

(3 or more dps) + – The command for this throw is now made easier with one less input. It is important to remember, however, that if the throw connects or is escaped, Shun will lose 3 dps regardless.

Other notes: is now made into a linear attack. is now made into mid two limb class. Lastly, or ++ from sitting down position can move Shun into drunken stance.

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<font color="white">Execution Frames for Key Moves</font>

11
12
(B1) 12
14
14
15
(B2) 15
(A2) 16
16
16
16
17
17
+ 17
+ 17

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<font color="white">Counter Table</font>

-11 (Can only hit standing opponent)
-12 (Can only hit standing opponent)
(B1) -13 (Can only hit standing opponent)
-14 (Can only hit standing opponent)
(B2) -15 (Not as useful against standing opponent)
-16
-16
+ -17


Source: Virtua Fighter 4 Final Tuned Master Guide

 

awesome info...thanks!!!

 

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Srider said:

15 frame execution mid attack. This attack causes a stagger on a crouching opponent, and it gives Shun a large frame advantage. In addition, depending on the foot position, this move possesses evasive properties. It is able to avoid moves such as or . It's also important to note that this move is uncounterable on guard. This makes this move an important asset for Shun in his close up games.

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very cool. that gives it properties like shuns ++ which is also capable of avoiding jabs and +'s depending on foot position. does it say whether you can avoid just the standing jabs regardless of foot position or do you have to be specific for that as well?? either way its good to know this attack has some assets other then being a standard elbow type attack.

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; This string now requires 21 dps to fully combo compared to the 17 from before. This also applies to .

[/ QUOTE ] /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif they just have to screw with the moves even if they're balanced don't they??

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; This move now does not knock down on LC, MC requires 10 dps or more, but knocks down always on HC.

[/ QUOTE ] is that the only part about it thats been weakened?? i hope it hasn't lost its reach and slight evasiveness because thats what makes this move useful in the first place. the no-KND on LC & MC is no problem though.

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; The execution is now slower by 1 frame. The recovery on guard has also been increased to -6. Hitting a crouched opponent now puts Shun at -2.

[/ QUOTE ] additionally i'd also noticed that the damage of the move has been reduced to 20 pts according to 1/60th. thats an unfair change because it allowed some limited strategy to be applied with chouwan on okizeme (i used it after throws occasionally when i suspected highly delayed rising attacks. if you timed it right you could CH the rising attack and go for highly damaging stance specific CH combos). hopefully some shuns in japan will suggest they change the damage back to 23 (or heck even 21. its just 1pt of damage for crying out loud!). i guess shuns will have to live with the other drawbacks though.

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+; A new high attack with good execution speed and reach. Shun goes into drunken stance afterwards. The key point for this move is that Shun is at advantage of +6 or more whether on guard or hit, and is in drunken stance, so it allows him to continue to attack if this move connects in anyway.

[/ QUOTE ] that sounds wicked! +6 on hit/guard is very good. given those stats i'm surprised it isn't being used more (although i guess execution speed will also be a factor here) does it say how fast the move executes in the guide?

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(Drunken Stance) +; This throw now catches the opponent quicker, so it makes the nitaku game from drunken stance stronger than before.

[/ QUOTE ] would love to find out how fast this is as well. it clocked in at a whopping 23 frames evo.

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(While Running) + - You can now execute Shun's + by running without having to have 8 dps. However, neither version now sobers at all.

[/ QUOTE ] cool addition. i'm sure it might develop some limited use now.

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++ - The drinking part gives Shun one dp and also puts Shun in a crouching state, so he can avoid high attacks while drinking. After the first makes contact, he can input for two move mid hits, the last of which knocks down on hit. Doing all three 's requires strict timing.

[/ QUOTE ] wow sounds kind of hard to do then. i was under the impression that only the first to second punch required JF timing.

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or ++ from sitting down position can move Shun into drunken stance.

[/ QUOTE ] very cool! wasn't aware of this. if its as fast as the sitdown to LD transition it could definitely have some uses on oki.

thanks for the info srider /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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+; A new high attack with good execution speed and reach. Shun goes into drunken stance afterwards. The key point for this move is that Shun is at advantage of +6 or more whether on guard or hit, and is in drunken stance, so it allows him to continue to attack if this move connects in anyway.

[/ QUOTE ] that sounds wicked! +6 on hit/guard is very good. given those stats i'm surprised it isn't being used more (although i guess execution speed will also be a factor here) does it say how fast the move executes in the guide?

Word on the street is that it is 16.

The move sounds great but it hits High-high, and at 16 you are pretty stupid if you dont go for chouwan instead. Also, animation is such that after the two hits he kinda pulls back, so that if its evaded or misses on range you are F---ed.

 

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even 21. its just 1pt of damage for crying out loud!).

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remember shun's moves start doing extra damage with more drinks. so at 5 DP, it will do 5% extra damage, 21 points! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

At first I thought ++ didnt look very useful, but at 16 frames it has a new spin to it... I wonder if the second hit will whiff if the first is evaded? It sounds like a nice way to incorporate 's oki game against stuff like staggers.

 

I should emphasize that + is not just +6. The stats are as follows.

+6 on guard
+10 on normal hit
+12 on any counter hit
Sober 1 dp

 

if the evade the first one the second one does not hit.

then you get buttraped.