Shun Strategies!

Figured since all the other characters have multiple strategies figured I would start one on the character I like playing with. I actually started playing with him because when I started playing VF5 I was on a steep learning curve. My friend had already been playing VF's for a while and really got into it in VF4, so I was trying to find my character. I tried a bunch of different people then I tried Shun. See when you are fighting someone real technical who relies on numbers and on guaranteed things Shun can really switch that up for you. When Shun drinks he gets faster and stronger which can throw off timing of some players. Now once you start making a player second guess himself and start to turtle up that's when it gets interesting. You can still play your game but they can't play theirs. I will post more about actually things I have learned when I get a bit more time. Feel free to add!

 

"Turtling up" against shun wouldn't be my strat of choice when facing him.

In fact vs Shun I try to be more aggressive (abare) than usual as I definitely don't want him getting throw on me and gaining 4 drinks, and I definitely don't want him to win a round and gain 2-3drinks.

Creating distance against him just allows him to drink also.

Despite this I have nowhere near enough practice versus Shun's (I'm looking at you, dwindled VF community) and still fall for shenanigans (successful sabaki launcher and mule kick till I die bro!!)

 

I play Shun so if you want to play you can play me. Definetely don't want to sit back and do nothing. Gives him room to drink. The issue is that most guaranteed or strategies that you would normally use you then have to adapt for Shun. No longer are you going for bread & butter but also for moves to knock drinks out of him.

One of his best and most annoying moves is his DB + P, nice poke which can also be followed with K for a sweep and then a FD + P for a ground poke assuming they don't quick recover. Has good range.

Now a good strategy is to abare with him and keep pressure on him but you have to be very careful with how much because mule kick does hurt. If timed right you can get under those highs too. End up eating a kick and possible giving him another 4 drinks should Shun follow with F+PK instead of a combo.

That is where Shun's power is. Making an opponent adjust to your speed advances and wide selection of moves as you drink. It will make someone who normally plays one way play totally different against Shun.

 

I disagree, feel free to add me. I need to fight some good shuns.

 

Disagree to what?

 

does shun have any stance specific strats? Open closed?

It seems to me his 1P+K+G, mule kick, and all his other moves that have built in evasive properties u can do it whenever.

What are his moves that change properties/become safer/etc... when he has more drinks thnks?
the only one i think i read about was 23 DP, 3p being down on CH

 

His moves do have evasive properties but you still have to be smart about it. You can't spam the moves because if they become predictable they are easy to punish. The mule kick is a great move and works well for get off me tactics and stall tactics with low P. The main thing about his drinks is the access he gains to better moves. He also gets slight damage increases.

Most of his stances are used for mix up. You don't really stay in them like other characters. They are transition stances.

 

im talking stance specific open closed and specific numbers...

feet position. like ex EILEEN OPEN SHRM, CLOSE SHR GOH, CLOSE UPPERCUT LION, aoi 236P. i have a suspicion 3P+K+G can be stance specific.

not so much general info. i like specific info, thats just me. Im wierd and i like information thats wierd first..
like if u can tell me at what drink he gets stronger or whatver. what moves at what drink gets stronger, i already know what moves he can do at X amt of drinks.

by the way becareful (not directed at u, ppl in general who play shun) when u do ur mule kick into 6P+K combo ( his recovery is shit after he drinks that, that should not be a combo u should be doing 100 percent of the time). i usually do that if i know im gonna win, or dependant on damage left for u, or there not making the best of the recovery time. Try experimenting with stuff like, Mule kick 3/9P+K+G to back 2p,hold 6 P, KK thats my favorite with shun. or mule kick 3P+K+G p KK is easier.

 

I'll have to look into the stances a bit more. I just started playing again after a few months off. I been playing Blazblue and some other fighters. The combos that you do out of mule kick is dependent on your drink level. If you have 16 the most damaging option would be 8+K+G, KK, 2P, K, 43+P, 3 P, the last two being dependent on if they don't quick recover. I would recommend experimenting more with the mule kick as defense as well. The recover is bad but they don't list that fact it dodges highs and lows during different parts of the animation. If someone is trying to stall with 2P, you can mule kick them out of it. You can also follow it up with his basic which is PP 1+KK as well and ending with the same ender. Timing is tricky on the ender but can be worth it in close matches. Also good note is even if they quick recover and you input the slide for the ender, it's only -8, and you should be able to stay in crouch position to avoid throws so it's pretty safe.

I'll look into the stance thing some this week, and the drink power level. I do know his throw damage goes up as he drinks but it's a slower process. Usually most his moves do 2 or 3 points more damage then normal, I think his throw increases by almost 10 more points

 

Maybe it's just the way I play, but I never take into account foot position with Shun. I don't think it's really that important for the majority of his situations. As for being careful about doing 6P+K after mule kick, while that is true, it still can be worth the drinks you get, especially considering that the majority of the time you can't be heavily punished anyway. The only reason 6P+K after mule kick is punishable is because of the opponent being close to the ground after hit, thus being able to tech roll quicker. For this reason also you can bait a character into coming after you after just doing 6P+K (without mule kick) unless they were hit while crouching, because many people still think they can rush in and punish.

The easiest thing to do after mule kick as mentioned is 3PPK (best to goto handstand after also). If you really want to get creative, try going into BT with 44P and buffering in a backwards hop. This will land you and the other side of the rising opponent and depending on how they get up, and if they do a rising kick, you can get a back throw or anything else you like. This situation is pretty much only for flash because it is not a safe thing to do.

As for drink benefits, many people don't know that with 23DP or more, 3P will launch on major counter. Unfortunately knowing this doesn't help too much, at least with the way I play him. I remember reading in VF4 something about not being able to block certain combos when Shun had something like 25DP+. If I remember right it was combos like PP2KK and KK2PK. I don't think this exists in VF5.

I have always wished there was a DP chart which listed all differences in attacks, damage, floating difference, etc. Sometimes when I have too many DP the hook punch will float them too high for certain canned follow-up attacks. Throws definitely become more damaging. Sheesh, at 40DP Shun's semi-circle throw does almost half damage, especially if you get the ground attack afterward!

If you're looking for something fun and new to do in the very common situation after 43P+G, do the usual hook punch but then go for 44K. This works against most characters with around 10DP and even the heavyweights after about 15DP. However it will only work if your hook punch makes them fly away from you with their head/stomach facing the ground (BT situation). That typically only happens if the opponent didn't input a move, because if they did, even though the hook punch is guaranteed, the game considers them facing you instead of BT. The follow up move if 44K connects has only one choice - K+G.

This is actually a very damaging combo, and often times because people don't expect they can get hit with K+G at the end means they aren't ready for a tech roll, which allows you to do another K+G. There are quite a lot of fun opportunities here as well. If you anticipate a tech roll after either the first or second K+G, you can delay yet another one. For instance, if you do K+G the moment the opponent tech rolls it will miss them, but if you delay it and they are not holding guard it will hit. Moreover, and this gets a little technical and tricky, it can be good to buffer in a BT back crouch dash (or just buffered back dash) followed by a BT backwards hop. This alone creates more choices, such as, landing with a low kick from the hop, or at the very least just throwing off the camera/opponent once landing from the hop. In this situation it is highly likely that an opponent's rising kick (or any attack) will miss. It is even more likely that you have confused your opponent due to positioning.

I could go on and on but that's it for now. =)

 

I agree that stances dont' matter as much with Shun. I don't mind the 3PPK combo but if you have the drinks the KK2PK into ground follow up does a ton of damage. You can get almost 100 pts or more, especially on counter hit. As far as I can tell with a lot of drinks his moves are still blockable they just become harder to do block on reaction. I started playing a little more yesterday so I'll try to get some more stuff listed. Each person plays shun a bit different. A lot prefer a runaway game which is odd. I prefer an up close and personal one. Depending on how long the match is set to would depend on how I would use the 6PK. If you are playing long sets then go for it because it's worth the drinks. Shun def has the advantage the longer the matches are set to.

 

can someone confirm 43P recovers crouching.. always thought standing im sure 90 percent thats standing. regards to combo i should have been more clear, when u dont have drinks. the rest are all the wiki section for combos which ive already seen.

Jhow 6P+K, in ur first paragraph, i think im misunderstanding.. Are u saying after the mule kick combo 6P+K, wait for them to rush u and do a 6P+K when they try to rush u?? i havent thought of that, i should try that.

" Shun had something like 25DP+. If I remember right it was combos like PP2KK and KK2PK. I don't think this exists in VF5."
that would be crazy if that works in vf5, i should try that.

Ill try that setup with BT K+g that one sounds interesting.

With the foot close open, I dont think it is stance specific, pretty universal VS 2p elbows etc.. perhaps certain mids maybe.. But i wouldnt doubt 3P+K+G would go through 2p and elbows.. thats my suspicion.
It looks like lions 3P+K+G P+K or was it P i forget.

 

Sorry 43P doesn't leave you in couch state, you eventually stand, but if you input the rest of the ender as normal, the 1P will execute and keep you safe from throws and high p strings. You will actually abare the throw in this case. You can still get hit by crouching P or a mid P but you will just have to vary your moves out of it. It's not something to throw out just to throw out though, it's only in case they quick recovery while trying to finish up your ground hits. The majority of the time you will be safe. There are a few combos when you don't have drinks but they are can strings for the most part. I mean....honestly the entire time you should be drinking or trying to get drinks. Starting out you are going to be fishing for moves that will give drinks, lead to drinks, or back dashing out with 3 PKG to get distances to have a drink. 6 is the minium you want to have because that opens up the majority of your game. I can post some non-drink combos later this weekend

 

No, sorry it wasn't clearer. I thought I might have described that poorly. I think all I was trying to say is that when you land a 6P+K without the mule kick being involved at all, people think they can hit you after but they can't. The only way they can is if 6P+K hits them while crouching because they can tech roll quicker.

Definitely try the 43P+G into hook punch into 44K. It's so fun when it hits, feels rewarding, and looks extremely painful! =)Then of course follow it up with BT K+G.

Also on the topic of gathering drinks early (or anytime) during the round, mastering the use of 6P+K+G is extremely important! You can practically make this alone a strategy, and gather drinks at the same time. For example, do 6P+K+G and then just one of the following punches. Then do it again. Then do it again, but maybe this time do all the punches. Then try it again, and after just the one punch go for a throw. One of the reasons this works so well is because of how long you can wait to do the first punch after 6P+K+G. You can either delay it because you're waiting to see what your opponent is doing, or use it just to add confusion. The best part is that you're completely safe after even doing all three punches.

I've won many first rounds just doing variations of this scenario, and have around 8 to 12 drinks to boot! If the first punch after 6P+K+G connects, that is usually the best time to go for a throw. I'd say it works for me over 75% of the time. And if you think your opponent is anticipating that after being hit by the first punch, then go for anything else because you have the advantage.

 

That was the thing I had test with my roommate, and sorry I have to say it's a complete online tactic. But I won't deny it's really good itself cuz it's safe to push your opponent away even when Shun has -6 on block. The most important thing is the first punch is hit or not, if it's blocked, the rest of the punches won't be able to delay so your opponent can react right after the first punch. And when you tend to do 6P+K+G after one punch over again, your opponent is able to use elbow to interrupt. The reason I say elbow cuz either P or 2P are evasive by 6P+K+G stance or distance.

Only CH gives Shun advantage, but to be honest NH is still good cuz all the response is too restricted and probably only very few human can react well by both checking hit and watching the second punch coming or not.

 

Interesting about the online tactic thing. I never would have thought about it, because unfortunately 99% of my play is online.

Now that I think about it I rarely see any other Shun players use 6P+K+G, or at least the way, and as much, as I do.

You're right about it still being good on block and even at -6, because Shun can just do a backdash and/or 1 or 7 P+K+G, and then even the possibility of P or P+K during special evade.

Thanks for the insight Dennis!

 

The reason I test it before with my roommate cuz there was a Shun player called Ceh or Chd(might spell wrong) used exactly the same tactic. I was so confused at the first time and he could easily reach 20DP just in 2 rounds.

Btw Jhow, are you sure that single 6P+K is not able to be punish after tell roll? I notice that point but I always thought I was too slow to input such as Wolf's 66P+K. Too bad there is no chance to test myself offline now, and I appreciate you brought this up~

 

drunken fist ya that be cool if u find anything thats not already on the combo section in http://virtuafighter.com/combos/

ill try some 3P+K+G and 6P+K+G testing tonight. i remember, shun had a move that was stance specific and disadv specific, maybe it was 6P+K+G or 3P+K+G.

Neways, I wrote some notes on shun, awhile ago (when i wanted to use shun as a sub, but my sub chnges evryweek, and its incomplete). I been taking notes on some setups. hopefully this helps, and if u want i can add more afterwards when i go over him again. i wanted to see the frequency vs certain characters and compare combos with the combo list on VFDC.. look at oki wake up etc. if my crackfactor notes dont make sense srry.
http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/303653/Shun_Analysis#Post303653

 

It's funny you mention Wolf's 66P+K, because that is the exact move I always think of in that situation. I am 100% sure that no move in game (well, 99%) can punish Shun's 6P+K, unless it hits a crouching opponent (or flipped up legs on the ground opponent after mule kick).

My thoughts have always been that SEGA tested Shun's recovery frames after 6P+K and made sure they were the maximum frames but without being able to get hit by any character's moves.

With Wolf's 66P+K Shun can dodge, from what it seems, 1 frame before getting hit. =D

 

Thanks for the clear up, and I'll keep in my mind not attack Shun after that

Also the foot stance you guys were talking about, and I think it's much easier to recognize after hit. For example, Akira's 666P>P>66KK is on close stance, but actually it's open stance when the opponent in the air. The animation is very clear to tell by their legs. Another example is Jacky's 4K+G>P>KG>3K+G on open stance, it's actually close stance after 4K+G hit so Jacky's rear leg can kick opponent's floating leg during lie down. It's exactly the same as Lion's P+K>P>KK on close stance.