Shun uf+P+K move

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Guest, Nov 10, 1999.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In another thread, ice-9 said: "So buy one of the two books to learn the moves, and come back here to learn how use them.
    ice-9 | Sennin"

    Okay, I got one. There is a Shun move listed as uf++P+K. But every time I try to do it, all I get is his uf+P move, even if I get him completely drunk. I checked the Virtua Project site, and they list his uf+P+K "tornado punch" move separately from his uf+P "Spinning Punch" move. So why can't I get it to work? Is there a special trick? Or is this another bogus move like Lau's PK+G move? Or is this like Wolf's d+K and d+K+G, in that there is a subtle difference between the two Shun moves that I might be missing? Please help!
    Thanks, Wolfstudent
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It is just an alternate command for the same move
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks anonymous for your answering my question, whoever you may be. I had a lot of faith in the Virtua Project move list, based on all the nice things said about it here. It's disappointing that they list uf+P+K with an execution of 24 and a block advantage of -15, while giving uf+P an execution of 26 and a block advantage of 0, if both moves are identical. This not only confuses beginners who think the two moves must be different, but I guess experts too, for whom those statistics are aimed at. It makes me wonder how valid the other data is too. Which brings me to another Shun move question, but I'll put it in another thread. Thanks again for the help.

    Wolfstudent
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There is one circumstance under which having the alternative command might be useful. If the opponent is on the ground, inputting uf+P will not give Shun's spinning punch, but rather his rolling elbow smash ground attack. Inputting uf+P+K will still give you the spinning punch; however it does no damage. So what's the point? Well, in fooling around with it, I 've noticed that under certain conditions (such as when Shun is perpendicular to the fallen enemy and near his head), uf+P+K can be used to fly across the fallen enemy. This may have some interesting possibilities versus a rising attacker. I won't use the technical term for this type of situation, since you're a beginner, but there is a whole class of similar attacks for characters.
    BTW, before you get similarly confused, I think Shun's ub+P+K is the same as his d,ub+P even though Virtua Project lists them independently as well. But I could be wrong... somebody correct me if I am,
    Because, Imashroom
     
  5. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    I give up on you people.

    <font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>
     
  6. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    BTW, the statistics were taken from Gamest.

    <font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    lasted much longer than i would have in your place. i would have taken the site down much earlier.

    good show. fuck them all. no one deserves this much shit for the amount of work you have all put into your site.

    -rich
     
  8. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Rich, I love you. ;)

    Hear hear!

    Cheers,

    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
     
  9. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Cheers Rich, thanks for the vote of confidence!

    <font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The Virtua Project is closed

    rich, i have to politely disagree with you here. Llanfair, kbcat, it's your site of course, and naturally you have the right to do anything you want with it--like close it down--but it seems to me like you aren't prepared for dealing with the Virtua Project as a public document, and you aren't prepared for dealing with the responsibilities of authority. you do not list your sources (plagiarism). you are not open to criticism if it doesn't come with a nice candy coating. you do not correct obvious mistakes but instead argue from authority: "well, the mook says such and such, so we're following the mook..." haven't you guys been through college? don't you know how intellectually irresponsible it is to make arguments like that?

    anyhow, not that any of this matters. i know you put a lot of work into it, i know it's your baby and i can tell you feel deeply unappreciated. so be indignant. close it down. punish the ungrateful vf playing public.

    peter
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: The Virtua Project is closed

    well...i do agree it was a little odd that i never saw anything in regards to gamest. however, the ob version of the movelist had advantage times that were computed by graham and owen by hand (or calculator, whatever. just imagine how fun and time consuming that was. i never saw much gratitude towards them at that time, either). these times were never in the earlier gamests, and hell, i wouldn't be suprised if the VP format was an inspiration for gamest's own lists!

    regarding their attitude towards criticism...why has the whole net vf community mutated from a group of friends, not always having to discuss VF, willing to travel to meet new people (and not obsess over details in the game 24/7), into a group which spoon-feeds info to detail obsessed, mealy mouthed, bitchy little newbie halfwits? anonymous, pedantic and irritating people that most of the established people here will likely never (care to) meet or play. they either do not understand or care, or choose not to care, about the work that goes into building and maintaining a site such as theirs. these people can take their melodramatic little whingeing ("i used to have faith"...bleach) and shove it up their asses. figure it out for yourselves, you goddamn fools. the info is sitting out there waiting for you to be found. think "self reliance".

    i really do admire the patience that you (peter) have towards some of the new guys asking questions, and the willingness that you have to write long explanations. but it gets old, the questions get dumber and more irritating, and i'm sure you'll eventually get tired/fed up with it. and also (and i can't speak for them, i'm assuming) the vp crew do have lives and are very busy, and changing some of those stats and modifying the page just ain't easy. also, no one has the formulae for working out damage/exe/co/rec/ad etc times in TB, and if they went ahead using ob formulae and it was wrong, oh boy, that old shroom would just have a field day, wouldn't he! when the amount of shit you take > than the amount of time and work (which was HUGE), it's time to say "fuck it".

    most of the "old guard" here have been here in the shit for so long. we obviously have different, more conservative views on how things should be run, as it were, and how people should behave. some might say we've been here too long...maybe the vp site being taken down is a first step towards the inevitable..

    heeeeyyyy...now's the time for shroom to make his own 110 % perfect movelist page! whaddya say, shroom?
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    As someone already pointed out, it was an alternate command for the same move. But did you ever stop to think why this was? Can you think of any situation where the uf+P won't give you what you want? After a knockdown, will the uf+P give you a pounce or the tornado punch (or whatever it's called)?

    So then you might want to think why there are different stats of what seems to be the same move? Well, there are moves that hit standing and floored opponents (lion's uf+K for example), and so it follows that the same move will have different stats depending on the situation it was used in.

    Now, I can't remember if the uf+P hits a floored opponent. Knowing my luck it probably doesn't :) but my point is that usually something is done for a reason, and it's usually very subtle. Just stop and think about it, and ask questions (nicely) if it really bothers you. But I must say it saddens me to see how unappreciative some people can be.

    R.I.P VP

    __
    Myke
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    WHAT IS GOING ON HERE???? I don't understand the viciousness of the responses and the anger being generated. I don't understand why Rich belittled me (I didn't ask any question in this thread -- stupid or otherwise -- I tried to answer one...) I don't know why he attacks trying to generate a complete movelist. Soul Calibur fans have seemingly done it. I don't know why kbcat is giving up on this site just because somebody asked a question and expressed some minor frustration. As wolfstudent says, if you read ice-9's comments in another thread, he invited newbies to come here and learn. Now we get angry at them for asking a question because they are confused? What kind of drugs are you guys on anyway? Look, I'm a professor by occupation. If I blew my top this way every time someone questioned my teaching, no real learning would ever occur in my classes. We'd only have mindless groupthink. Ask Hiro.... And Rich, just for your information (man I am mad!), I've been playing this game as long as anybody else at this site. And I'm damn good at it. I just am a bit older (and probably more mature) than most of the people who seem to post here; I'm even a father. It was my daughter who gave me the Imashroom handle. So I don't hang out with any Boston/Chicago/Toronto/etc. group or attend gatherings, but I am as much a part of this VF-thing spiritually as you will ever be.
    kbcat, you shock me. When I used to point out all the mistakes on the Firestarter move lists, you appreciated it and made changes; you even credited me on the Firestarter site for my being so helpful. I must have sent you about 40 pages or so of email; I wrote that stuff because I cared as much about VF3 as you did. I think it made the move lists better. Now you get angry because someone asks a legitimate question and makes a valid complaint? The VP site is not beginner-friendly. It was never meant to be, at least that's what Godeater and others have said. It was meant for experts who could figure out things. Then people on this site (including Llanfair) started recommending it to beginners as the best move list for them. Can't you see the problem this might generate? Wolfstudent is trying to learn the moves, and he comes across some genuine (for him) move questions, and he gets a bit frustrated, and we attack. That's no way to build a VF community. Rich longs for the old days. So do I, when a beginner COULD ask a stupid question at RGVA and get a patient answer from Yupasawa. Rich says find out for yourself the answers to questions. Then why do we need THIS site? You guys are going to destroy any possibility of building a North America VF community.
    Wolfstudent -- I apologize for their intolerance. I wish I knew the answers to your questions. But I'm not a Shun player. I too am confused about whether or not Shun's uf+P and uf+P+K are different, or if his b+EP and P+E are different. I wish I could help. Maybe someone with Shun knowledge will yet respond.
    I have more I want to say, but I am just too goddamn angry.

    A very, very, very disappointed and angry Imashroom
    imashroom@aol.com
     
  14. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    I tell you why I took down the site... I took down the site because, lately especially, people just complain and nitpik. The site has been up since early VF2, there have been errors, and I have corrected them when I have time (bear in mind I do have a job and other responsibilities). You know that to be true Imashroom. But, the fact that no one appreciates the work, or has ever thanked me for the effort has finally taken it's toll. It is no longer worth the effort.



    <font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    in the "old days", new people rarely asked questions. and when they did, they more often than not got blasted for their ignorance.

    my very first post to rgva was along the lines of "oh yeah! boy do i hate that senbon nokku! see this guy here in my arcade just does PPP, PPP over and over with jacky and i just can't deal with it! gosh darn that senbon nokku!". joji suzuki responded with a fairly harsh reply. i learned then it's better to seek out info ready available than to be an idiot about it.

    in regards to the nitpicking...imagine the VP as a huge glass skyscraper which the ICK crew built by hand. the ICK crew has to keep the glass clean, of course and they spent so many hours scrubbing and squeegee'ing it down, making it look nice and respectable. then, some person they don't know comes barging along, looks at the building and says "look here, you missed a spot. lookit that! bastards." another slob who they don't know and probably don't want to know comes along and screams "oh my lord look at that crud! OOHhhhhHhH my..my faith in all that is good and pure is CRUSHED". someone else: "admirable, but this defect here probably indicates it's really all crap. how can you do this to our children?." and on and on...how would you imagine they would react? hard work, no praise, and all criticism, not a whole lot gained. can you really blame them for taking it down?
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    kbcat: Listen again. I have thanked you, and expressed my appreciation. I do it again. It is, or rather was, a great site. A lot of hard work went into it. I learned a lot from VP. That's why I'd like to see it updated. If you're too busy, I'm willing to help if you let me. But even if it can't be updated, what the hell is wrong with using a forum like this to correct any mistakes or answer questions that arise (like Wolfstudent's or mine). These issues (like questions) arise because people like VF3 and want to learn more, not because they are trying to flame you. You've done a great job. But even great novelists can use a good editor. If you really believe that the only questions that have arisen are picky ones, then you should feel pride that your work is so good that only picky criticism can be levelled at it. Any way, I think most questions have been legitimate. What is obvious to someone like you may be deeply perplexing to a newbie. As seems obvious (at least to me) from recent threads, even veterans have problems understanding some simple VF3 concepts. Speaking for myself, I can tell you that every question I have asked has come from a genuine spirit of love for the game and a thirst for knowledge that just sometimes seems arcane to me.

    Imashroom
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Rich: Your analogy is fallacious. If you want to use a building metaphor, then imagine someone erecting a building in Turkey that is supposed to be earthquake-proof and some stranger who just happens to be an engineer comes along and finds a flaw that can easily be corrected. And the architects refuse to do so, because their blueprints came from a Japanese architect. As for newbies and their viewpoints, don't you remember the Emperor's New Clothes fairy tale and its lesson?
    VP was meant to be a site that had data that can be used. If the data is wrong for whatever reason, correcting it if possible seems to be a rational act. If that's too time consuming, then simple answers to questions asked here might be sufficient.
    Your memories of RGVA are different than mine, but your argument is similar to one that says when I joined a college fraternity I was subjected to a humiliating and dangerous initiation, so let's continue the practice with new pledges. As for your continual reference to learning for yourself, you seem to miss the obvious. There is much knowledge that is not readily accessible (e.g., it may be written in a foreign language) that can be gained through the simple act of sharing. If everyone followed your belief, there'd be no books or colleges. You may have a dark mind, but I can't see you enjoying another Dark Ages.

    Imashroom
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    shroom: 1) not all of the references to other people are directed at you. you're being a little self-centered in assuming that you are the one being "blamed".

    2) it's a fallacious analogy from your point of view. not mine.

    3) i'm serious when i suggest you start your own page. you have/can get the mooks. you seem to have enough interest and time in order to build such a page. why not?
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: The Virtua Project is closed

    re: rich's reply to my post above

    yeah, the question of what kind of community there used to be and what kind there is now occurred to me too as i was writing that. now i was never a member of the old community, but as i understand it the barriers to entry were a little higher then. not as many people had internet access, and finding your way to rgva was a bit harder than finding your way to a web board, so the people that actually participated in the on-line vf discussion had already come a longer way to get there. newcomers knew their way around on-line information better, they weren't as likely to get discouraged by being flamed, and they held the people who were already established at rgva in greater awe. or so i would imagine.

    something i've noticed, usually after the fact, is that words just by themselves are bad at conveying emotions or subtext. i'll post something, then two days later realize that it comes across quite differently than what i originally intended. i suppose that's why smiley faces are so popular, eh?

    there's an on-line Chinese-English dictionary at www.zhongwen.com that i discovered one day when i had just begun to use the internet, and to my horror it included a "traditional etymology" for every character. these "traditional etymologies" are more folk-lore than anything else, but the web site's author was claiming they were well supported by academic research, which simply isn't true. this is my field, so on the message board there i left a long long message saying that i thought the web site was disseminating false information, why it was false, and why this was bad. needless to say, the webmaster got a little annoyed. i almost got banned. whoops. now, if only i had prefaced my comments with something like: "you have a lovely site, it's very informative and useful and yada yada yada i can't begin to imagine how much work went into it. your traditional etymologies are quite interesting. i've done a little work with chinese myself, and if you'll allow me could i make a couple observations?...." then something productive might have emerged from that incident.
     
  20. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: The Virtua Project is closed

    peter's example brilliantly demonstrated what is probably the best way of addressing a problem that is perceived to be of requiring correction. It may seem a little excessive, but keeping in mind that emotions--as peter observed--are rarely accurately portrayed across text.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     

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