ShunDi Questions

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Guest, Nov 1, 1999.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have a few quick questions about Shun Di

    1) What are some good ways to set up the sliding upper (b, d/f+P)?

    2) What are some good ways to set up the chouwan (d/f, f+P) other than the d/f+P+G throw.

    3) Most Importantly....What are some good ways to set up the TAPOD and does the punch have to be a counter to work.

    Thanks in advance for the help
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    If you compare the Sliding Upper with the Chouwan (damage, frame stats, etc), you'll find that the Chouwan is better on all accounts. That's probably why I've never been a fan of the Sliding Upper. It probably has some particular use though (avoids high attacks?) but I've never found this to be enough to integrate this move into my play. Maybe that's why my Shun sucks? ;) Anyway..

    I regard the Chouwan as Shun's "elbow" since he doesn't have one. As far as setups go, I'm gonna go the easy route and just offer you general advice. You really need to play the player. While some setups work against some people, don't expect them to work against everyone. Conditioning is also very important. Mix it up. Don't complete an entire canned sequence. Stop midway and alternate between a dash-in throw and a Chouwan or Sliding Upper. For example:

    PP sequence
    -> P (knockdown)
    -> d+KK (if you're drunk enough >10pts?)
    -> Throw (after a quick dash in)
    -> Chouwan or Sliding Upper

    You can do the same sort of thing with the f+PPPK sequence. It's highly delayable so be sure you don't get smacked inbetween your cute delays. The b,f+PPP sequence is also useful as a flowchart starter. The b,f+P is Shun's fastest punch (use it as you would other characters' P,G). The sequence is quick, yet delayable again. Shun has other canned combos you can explore with, particularly the KKP and KKd+P. Try messing around with those.

    Other setups include after blocking a rising attack, sidekick staggers, takeoff->landing kicks, after a handstand->rolling elbow (P+K). Alternate between a fast P, throw, or Chouwan/Sliding Upper as your next attack.

    But I highly recommend you piecing together your own flowcharts and working out which setups work against certain types of players (beginners or experts, passive or aggressive). You'll form your own opinions about his moves and in the process have a whole lot more fun (which is the whole point, isn't it?).

    Finally, I'm not sure what the TAPOD is? Turn Away Punch of Doom? (Who gave it this name? It hardly qualifies as Doom-material.. Disneyland, maybe) ;) If you're referring to his TA-Punch into back-turned throw, then yeah I believe the punch needs to be a counter hit. As far as setups go, refer to the body of this message ;)

    Did I get carried away?

    <pre>__
    Myke
    </pre>
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would go ahead and call it the TAPOD, considering after 15 drunk points, the TA punch will always MC no matter what, the butt throw is then guaranteed if the TAP is done from close range, and the pounce afterwards is also guaranteed. As the drunk points add up, the TA P, P+G, u+P does in the neighborhood of 120 points.

    Nutlog
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "Turn Away Punch of Doom? (Who gave it this name?"

    Actually I have heard it refered to as TAPOD a few times (I think on this board or on this site. Maybe hardcoregaming). I would call it this due to the fact that it is gauranteed and can cause apprx 50% damage.

    As far as the help with setups, the methods that you have suggested are the methods I currently use (I still appreciate the advice but was looking for something different or more advanced). I was hoping that there were other setups for this that I am not aware of. However I never thought of trying it by cutting the k,k,p or d+p combo short. If you know of any others I am open to suggestion.

    I probably use the b,f+P,P,P (cut short, then options) the most(due to speed and short recovery). Another method I like to use, that seems to work well if not abused is the P,P,E,b,d/f+P or P,P,E,d/f,f+P,B+P. What is your take on this method.

    Thanks in Advance
    Chris (the guy that started the thread but is to lazy to set up a Username)
     
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hmm, I could be mistaken about this, but I'm fairly certain that b,b+P -> butt throw is not guaranteed, even if the b,b+P MCed. It's sort of like Lion's d/f+P MC -> throw -- highly likely, but not guaranteed. I remember reading about this eons ago, and someone quoted GAMEST.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  6. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    It's only guaranteed from closed stance within throw range when the TA P hits. It still presents a decent guessing game of sidekick/throw/TA P
     
  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Oh, OK, cool.

    Chris, in reference to the original question, you should also think about P,P,E; this is a great move to set up other attacks.

    <pre><font face=courier>
    P,P,E
    -> chouwan / sliding upper (chouwan's better)
    -> d+P+K,K,K
    -> CD -> throw
    -> d+K,K
    </font></pre>

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ice-9,
    I could be wrong about the gauranteed part, but like nutlog said if your close it seems to always work.

    About the P,P,E; if you have read my second post under this topic I speak about the possibilities of this. I find P,P,E; to be a very effective guessing game since you can do virtually any move from this with minimal to no lag. I have listed practically the same follow ups to this as you have.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh Yeah Ice,
    I almost forgot. What do you think. TAPOD = Doom Material or Disneyland Material (As Myke has referred to it).

    Just Curious

    Chris
     
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Oops, sorry, I was quickly glossing over your post. I would say though that you'd probably find more success with the flowchart I outlined above. As for TAPOD...I'm still a little bit hesitant about that. Personally, I've always found it difficult to get b,b+P -> butt throw to work consistently enough to consider it a staple technique. The reason why it works so well (assuming it's not always guaranteed) is because usually the opponent cannot react fast enough. But there are players out there that can react very, very quickly, so be sure to keep that in mind.

    I mean, PK(G) MC -> throw may seem fairly guaranteed to many up and coming players, but I can assure you it's far from it. Some players have developed the reflexes to immediately throw escape when they see the PK(G), and that usually means the player gets thrown first.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ice,

    I am still a bit confused. The flowchart you have listed is practically the same as the method I had listed, only I did not put in flowchart format. The only difference I see is the fact that you also show the CD->Throw and the d+P+K,K,K follow ups. I use these as well many others (since the P,P,E; can be followed with practically any command. If I am overlooking something let me know.

    BTW, Since we are on the topic of P,P,E;....Try this out and let me know what you think.

    As you know the P,P,E,(any attack) is easily interupted if the opponent suspects it. If you suspect that your opponent will try to interupt the attack you can use the u/f+E, during the E portion of the P,P,E;, to swing around them for a throw or juggle combo. The u/f+E can be performed at any time during the first dodges animation and it will completely cancel it out. It is almost like a very fast double escape (seems faster than standard KSing).

    Looks like this (Just in case I'm not clear):

    P,P,E
    ->u/f+E(Immediately after E)(or any time during E animation)

    Can also be used without the P,P pre-fix. Bait them with an inappropriate escape. As the go for the interupt cancell the escape with the u/f+E

    Let me know what you think.

    Chris
     
  12. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Opps, missed this one

    Oops, I missed this one.

    I am still a bit confused. The flowchart you have listed is practically the same as the method I had listed, only I did not put in flowchart format. The only difference I see is the fact that you also show the CD->Throw and the d+P+K,K,K follow ups. I use these as well many others (since the P,P,E; can be followed with practically any command. If I am overlooking something let me know.

    Nothing really. Like I stated before, flowcharts are rather obvious statements for some people. I find that CD -> throw and D+P+K,K,K are very useful--you never indicated that you use the aforesaid options, so I thought I would list them for you just in case (and also for the benefit of other readers). And don't forget the d+K,K. Cancelling the first or second K is also an incredibly effective technique.

    Here are the two sentences where you made a reference to P,P,E:

    "Another method I like to use, that seems to work well if not abused is the P,P,E,b,d/f+P or P,P,E,d/f,f+P,B+P. What is your take on this method."

    I thought I was helping by elaborating on that.

    As you know the P,P,E,(any attack) is easily interupted if the opponent suspects it. If you suspect that your opponent will try to interupt the attack you can use the u/f+E, during the E portion of the P,P,E;, to swing around them for a throw or juggle combo. The u/f+E can be performed at any time during the first dodges animation and it will completely cancel it out. It is almost like a very fast double escape (seems faster than standard KSing).

    This sounds good on paper, but in reality it does not work so well. First of all, if I was playing against Shun and I knew he would P,P,E, I would throw him out of the E (and he would be unlikely to escape it, as the player is no doubt preparing for his follow up) and not bother to wait for the interrupt.

    Second, the E in the P,P,E is awfully slow (even if you input the u/f+E right after the E), so the whole sequence gives plenty of time for the player to react. Interrupting a follow up attack from a P,P,E is very risky, since the chouwan (when you buffer it in and cancel the E with it) comes out rather quickly and can end up giving you half damage. CD -> throw and D+P+K,K,K will also avoid a P(G). You can try interrupting with an elbow, but then you'd have to be very precise in timing. Like I said, it's probably better to throw if you anticipate the P,P,E.

    Unlike Lion's special escapes, Shun cannot cancel his normal evade with a u/f+E or a u/b+E. Still though, it is fairly nice to see and definitely something worth trying on a confused opponent.

    ice-9 | Sennin
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Opps, missed this one

    "Nothing really. Like I stated before, flowcharts are rather obvious statements for some people. I find that CD -> throw and D+P+K,K,K are very useful--you never indicated that you use the aforesaid options, so I thought I would list them for you just in case (and also for the benefit of other readers). And don't forget the d+K,K. Cancelling the first or second K is also an incredibly effective technique."

    Ok, sorry about that. As always any/all suggestions are always welcome.


    "Second, the E in the P,P,E is awfully slow (even if you input the u/f+E right after the E), so the whole sequence gives plenty of time for the player to react. Interrupting a follow up attack from a P,P,E is very risky, since the chouwan (when you buffer it in and cancel the E with it) comes out rather quickly and can end up giving you half damage. CD -> throw and D+P+K,K,K will also avoid a P(G). You can try interrupting with an elbow, but then you'd have to be very precise in timing. Like I said, it's probably better to throw if you anticipate the P,P,E."

    I agree the E out of the P,P,E; is extremely slow. I see your point.

    "Shun cannot cancel his normal evade with a u/f+E or a u/b+E"

    Are you sure about this. When I have done this it seems that I can cancel the evade at any time (I may be completely wrong this)

    Anyhow, thanks for any/all of the suggestions you have provided.
     

Share This Page