Shun's Version C Command List Errata

a. The reversal level of the f+PP Double Knuckle should be corrected from MP to EL.

Updated.

b. The hit level of the f+PPPK "Double Knuckle, Backfist, Hip Check" should be changed from M to M*.

Updated.

c. The b+P Backfist turns the opponent around.

Updated.

d. The following are those kick attacks I've identified so far as needing to be updated to SK reversal level (there may be more as I go further into the list): df+PPK "Uppercut, Thrust Punch, Toekick"; b+K Falling Kick; P+KK Thrust Punch, Sacrifice Toe Kick; b+K+G Retreating Hop Kicks; df+K Side Kick.

Updated.

e. The db+P Backpush and the DB+P Backpush can be reversed as LP attacks.

Updated.

f. The ub+P Falling Double Fist needs a "To Down position" note.

Updated.

g. The hit level for the KK "High Kick, Jumping Kick" should be updated to H*.

Updated.

h. The hit level for the KKd+PK should be corrected from M to M*.

Updated.

i. Damage for the u+K Mule Kick should be 20, not 26. It also causes a Flop.

Updated.

j. The damage for the db+P+K Evading Poke is listed as 10. The attack actually produces two pokes that do 10 damage each, so damage is 10+10 = 20. The first hits high, and the second hits midlevel! This is the first attack I've encountered that has parts which hit at different levels.

Updated. Lei has a few multi-level attacks too, but going by the date of this thread, you probably know that already.

k. The uncharged version of the df+P+K appears to Force Crouch. The charged version of the attack is a sabaki vs. HP, HE, HK, MP, EL, SK, MK, and KN attacks.

The uncharged version doesn't Force Crouch. It has the same animation as a sidekick MCing does (opponent doubling over). Ignored comment on charged version and Sabaki.

l. The ff+P+K Drunken Crash is missing a Guard Stagger note.

Updated.

m. The db+K Spinning Kick is a low attack that recovers high.

Updated.


n. The db+P+KP Evading Poke, Chop causes a Flop.

Updated.

o. The K+G Hopping Spin Kick can be reversed as an MK attack.

Updated.

p. The K+GP Hopping Spin Kick has the rare property of not just staggering crouchers, but non-defending standing opponents as well.

Updated with note "Hit Stagger".

q. The Slow Sweep (near and far) attacks need to have their reversal levels corrected from SW to LK. Also, as ranged damage attacks, they do 20~30 damage (damage increases with distance).

Updated.

r. The damage for the b+K+G Retreating Hop Kicks is listed as 20. It actually consists of three kicks, that do 20, 10, 10 damage. I don't think it is ever possible to be hit by all three of them. The first two can give cumulative damage of 20+8 (the second hits as an air attack), but once the second hits, it appears the third one is out of range. The third can hit by itself, though.

The White Book lists this as a two part attack, giving 20,10 damage. It's clear that there are three parts to the attack, but as you observed, it's impossible to be hit by all three. From a bit of testing it appears to me that hit detection ceases if the 2nd part connects (guard or hit). Try blocking the first two and see if you can make the third hit. No matter what I tried, it wouldn't. So, even though there are three phases of the attack, at most, it can only ever hit twice which effectively makes it a two part attack. Think of it as an attack with a head and tail. You either get hit by the head (20 pts), head and tail (20,10 pts), or the tail alone (10 pts). Although the tail lashes out twice, it can only hit once. Also, if you hold K to enter stance, Shun doesn't perform a third kick.


s. The u+K+G Mule kick causes a Flop. I also wish this and the u+K Mule Kick didn't both have the same name.

Updated. What's wrong with them having the same name? They're identical according to the data, and their official names are the same too (ryuubikyaku).

t. All the attacks that cause Shun to go to the Down position take off a DP; this should be documented somewhere. Same for the increased power of his attacks as he gets drunker.

I've added "Sacrifice (DP - 1)" notes to Shun's attack that go to the down position. It's a little redundant, but I feel the emphasis is warranted. As for noting the damage increase, there's no room for that in the Command List.

u. Minor annoying graphics problem: In the Name & Command column, whenever a DP is listed (to show the requisite DP), the "P" part consists of a Punch symbol.

Fixed.

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1. The three combos ending with a hip check, namely f+PK and f+PPK and f+PPPK, do not just Sober (DP -1). They have a unique pattern based on how many DP the opposing Shun currently has. If enemy Shun has 1 DP, attack takes off 1 DP; if enemy Shun has 2~19 DP, attack takes off 2 DP; for 20~21 DP, attack takes off 3 DP; for 22~29 DP, attack takes off 4 DP; for 30~32 DP, attack takes off 5 DP; for 33~39 DP, attack takes off 6 DP; for 40 DP, attack takes off 7 DP.

OK that's just weird, and I don't know how to note this cleanly with a Sober note. All the books say it's -1DP. Any suggestions?

2. Although Shun does not go into the Down position, the ff+P+K Drunken Crash costs Shun 1 DP to execute, even if it doesn't hit.

Added Sacrifice note.

3. I accidentally discovered that the db+P+K Evading Poke, much to my surprise, is a Sabaki vs HK,KN, MK, and SK attacks, and an Inashi vs. HP, HE, EL, and MP attacks. Also, it Sobers for -1 DP ONLY if the MP part of it hits; the HP part does not Sober (it is possible for either or both parts to hit an opponent).

Nice find! It's a Sabaki in all cases though, because the db+P+K is an attack in it's own right. Updated.

4. The d+P+K+GP and u+P+K+GP Drunken Elbow attacks, and the d+P+K+GPP and u+P+K+GPP Drunken Elbow Combo attacks should have their reversal levels corrected from MP to EL.


5. Pressing P is another way to "Stand Up" from a Sit Down Position, or a Handstand Position.

Well, I'm not adding every possible way of "standing up" from sit down or hand stand because not only can it be done with P, it's also possible with nothing but a joystick tap in the right direction, among other things! The main point of the G input shown on the command list is to show that it'll take 34 or 48 frames before you can Guard from that stance.

6. Two attacks from a Lying Down Position, the Thrust Kick and the KPK "Thrust Kick, Punch, Falling Kick" should have their reversal levels updated to SK.

Updated.

7. The d+K "Sweep" from a Lying Position, should have its reversal level corrected from SW to LK. I guess this means the name is lying as well.

*boom*tish* tough crowd eh? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Updated. The attack really does look like a sweep though.

8. I think the d+K Low Kick from a Sit Down Position causes a Foot Crumble.

Yep. Updated.

9. The Backfist from a Drunken Stance Sobers (DP -2).

Updated.

10. The P+G Dances with Punches adds 4 DP, not 5.

Updated.

11. The Butt Check, Turning Swipe does not add any DP, nor does it Sober an enemy Shun.

Updated. Also, Exact Recovery reduces damage to 30 pts and corrected throw level from HBT to HT.

12. The Switch & Kick leaves the opponent back turned.

Updated. So does the Rollover Throw (df+P+G).

13. The (drunken stance) P+G Fall Down Throw can't be escaped.

This is indicated by a null entry in the Guard column. However, I've updated the throw level from HT to HCT (high catch throw).

14. I believe neither the Hopping Smash nor the Hopkick can be reversed.

Updated.

15. The Landing Sweep hop attack's reversal level is not SW, but LK.

Updated.

16. The damage for the Hopping Corkscrew Punch is 30, not 20.

Updated. The White Book lists this as 20 points damage in the jump attacks section, but 30 points damage in the general attacks section. Same name, command, stats, just different damage.

17. The uf+P Sacrifice Strike ground attack is missing a "To Down position" note.

Updated. I noticed the uf+P and ub+P Ground Attacks had the same name (Sacrifice Strike) yet they're completely different attacks, so I've renamed them. The uf+P is now "Rolling Elbow Drop" and the ub+P is the "Falling Double Fist" just like the regular variant. It's interesting to note that Shun doesn't lose DPs when he performs these moves, even though they go to the down position.

18. The back turned attack, P+K Thrust Kick, should be updated to SK.

Updated.

19. Three back turned attacks, the P+K Thrust Kick, the P+K+G L-Shaped Attack, and the P+K+GP L-Shaped Combo, leave Shun back turned.

Updated.

20. The P+K+G L-Shaped Attack is listed as not reversible, yet amazingly either of its two component attacks (the midlevel one and the high one) can be reversed! Thus its reversal level would be designated, I suppose, as MP/HP (since it depends on which part is to be reversed).

Updated.

21. There is a missing back turned move, which is probably best categorized as a Special Action. If you tap "f" while Shun is back turned, it causes him to flip over and away from his opponent.

Added.

22. The reversal level for the bb+K is not HK, but HC (drove me nuts trying to reverse it with Pai).

Updated reversal level to HCR.

23. So far, I haven't been able to get Aoi to reverse Shun's df+P Spinning Elbow Drop ground attack as a GP attack (yes, I do verify them as well). I'll keep trying, but it isn't looking good.

Maybe because it's an Elbow? *shrug* Updated to read unreversible for now.

24. The commands for the two "Uppercut, Thrust Punch, Toekick, Handstand" Special Actions are missing the 8 DP requirement.

Updated.

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Another comment: Shun's Drunken Stance Backfist needs a note saying it turns the opponent around.

Updated.

________

1. In my first post I had said: "l. The ff+P+K Drunken Crash is missing a Guard Stagger note." Given the current terminology, this would now be called a High Guard Stagger.

Updated.

2. In that post, I also mentioned: "p. The K+GP Hopping Spin Kick has the rare property of not just staggering crouchers, but non-defending standing opponents as well." However, it does not stagger on an MC; a knockdown occurs instead.

Ammended note to read "Stagger on Hit only."

4. The following low level attacks also recover high: PPd+K "Double Punch, Spinning Low Kick"; d+K Low Kick; KPd+K "Thrust Kick, Punch, Spinning Low Kick" from Lying Down Position; d+K Sweep from Lying Down Position; Landing Sweep hop attack; (back turned) d+P Low Backfist.

Updated.

5. The df+PPK "Uppercut, Thrust Punch, Toekick" and the P+KK "Thrust Punch, Sacrifice Toe Kick" appear to cause a Stumble to crouching guarders and also on an MC.

Updated.

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1. The following moves should have a Crouch Stagger note: df+K Side Kick; d+P+K+GP Drunken Elbow; u+P+K+GP Drunken Elbow. The following moves should have a Crouch Guard Stagger note (they do not stagger non-defending crouchers): f+K Crane Kick; [Drunken Stance] K Kick.

Updated.

2. The Guard Stagger note for the charged version of the df+P+K Lunging Elbow should be changed to a High Guard Stagger note, since it does not Stagger a low guarding opponent.

Updated.

3. The MC frame data for the db+P+K Evading Poke is missing.

It's missing from the White/Blue books too.

4. I think the two (evade) P+K+G Dodging Cartwheel attacks Slam on MC.

Yep. Updated.

5. The d+P+K+GPP Drunken Elbow Combo and the u+P+K+GPP Drunken Elbow Combo cause a Flop.

Updated.

6. The Hit & MC data for the first hit of the (lying down) f+K Rollover Scissor Kicks are missing.

It's missing from the White/Blue books too.

7. I know this will sound crazy, and I may be off base on this one, but the d+P+K+G Drunken Walk Right and the u+P+K+G Drunken Walk Left each sure look and sound to me like an Inashi vs. HP, MP, EL, HE, SK, MK, KN, LP, and LK!

Are you seeing any deflection in the opponent's attack? I'm not. I think this move just has evasive properties which will cause other attacks to miss Shun.

8. Even more insane, when Shun does the (back turned) P+K+G L-Shaped Attack, the first hit is from a simultaneous elbow and leg attack that inflicts 10 damage, and which appears (with a built-in accompanying "scratching" sound effect) to act as a Sabaki vs. every attack type in the game (even irreversible attacks), by blocking them given the right early timing and proximity! Am I seeing/hearing more than is there?

Again, are you seeing any deflection in the opponent's attack? The only effect I saw was Shun MCing his opponent which isn't surprising given that the [BT] P+K+G executes in 14 frames (i.e. reasonably fast). I'm not convinced this is a Sabaki attack and you might be confusing the unique sound effect which is a little similar to the Sabaki scratch sound, but not the same (to my ears at least). Maybe you want to take another look at it? It’s just not happening for me.

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Reversal levels for Shun's rising attacks:
All of Shun's low rising attacks are SW, except for face up feet towards, no roll (no delay), which is LK.

Updated.

Midlevel rising attacks:
Face up feet towards: All are MCR, except for no roll (no delay), which is not reversible and knocks down (Shun waves his legs while doing a handstand).

Updated.

Face up head towards: All are SK.

Updated.

Face down feet towards:
1. no roll (no delay): A mule kick that is not reversible, and inflicts a Flop.

Updated.

2. delay: SK
3. longer delay: MCR

The Blue and White books don't distinguish between delay and longer delay rising attacks. They only have "delay" so I'm not sure if that's referring to the shorter or longer delay. But going by the frame stats, I'm guessing they only have the shorter delays in the books.

Compare (face down feet towards, short delay) KKK with (face up head towards, backroll) KKK. They have identical frame stats and look alike in animation.

Argh. I'll test this further when I have time.


4. sideroll: MK

Updated.

5. backroll: SK

Face down head towards:
1. no roll (no delay): MCR
2. delay: MCR
3. sideroll: SK
4. backroll: MCR

Updated.

 

A. The Sober note for the db+P+K Evading Poke somehow got all messed up. It should simply note "Second hit: Sober (DP -2)." It doesn't matter if both hits connect or just the second hit alone; the result is always the same.

Updated.

B. The reversal level for the db+P+K Evading Poke is also incorrect. It should be "-, MP." The first (high) hit can't be reversed. Even Aoi's YY fails against it.

Updated.

C. The reversal level for the db+K+G Falling Double Kick should be "HK, HK" as either kick can be reversed, and the damage will be different depending on which one is reversed.

Updated.

D. Aren't the uf+P Forward Corkscrew Punch and the (asc) uf+P Hopping Corkscrew Punch (listed in the Hop Attacks section) just the same move (with the hop attack entry having the wrong damage listed)?

That's how they appear in the Blue and White books. I'll just update the damage on the hop attack.

E. Minor "correction": The (16 DP) KKd+PK ends with a mule kick, not a toekick.

Updated.

F. I've added "Sacrifice (DP - 1)" notes to Shun's attack that go to the down position. It's a little redundant, but I feel the emphasis is warranted. As for noting the damage increase, there's no room for that in the Command List.
My point was that the damage increase should be mentioned in the legend, as should the DP loss. The DP loss is not just 1 DP. The amount sacrificed is a percentage of Shun's total DP: 10% rounded down, with a 1 DP minimum. So with 40 DP, he sacrifices 4 DP when he voluntarily goes down. Similarly, his gain in damage for an attack is 1% of the attack's normal damage for each DP, with the result rounded down. So an attack with base damage 25 will cause 26 damage when Shun gets 4 DP (4% of 25 is 1).

Added note to legend under Drink Effects.

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G. The (5 DP back turned) P+G Butt Check, Turning Swipe should have its "Exact Recovery reduces damage to 30" note corrected to an "IR possible" note.

Updated.

H. The (drunken stance) P+G Fall Down Throw should have an "IR possible" note added.

Updated.

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I. The command for Shun's Slow Sweep entries is incorrect. It should be D (or df) K+G.

Updated.

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J. The [Drunken Stance] P Backfist is a special high attack and accordingy should have its hit level updated to H*.

Updated.