simple PS2 evo vanessa stuff

Went back to playing Vanessa as she looks pretty good

Finally have time to test out some offensive mode stuff.

She has three damaging moves that comes out in 16 frames I think,

1) f(hold), K
2) f,f+k
3) FC,k

all is quite difficult to execute for people like me... sigh why don't they just make one of this moves a simple f+k....

All is pretty useful though cuz their damage potential is very high and recovers pretty fast for such high damage potential.

1) f(hold) k... head crumble on MC. my followup is the standard f+p,p,k. Is there a better one? The good thing about this is that it is half circular and recovers in -2 meaning you can interrupt almost every high/mid move with a d/f+p

2) f,f+k,f+p+k kind of tedious as you have to enter the f+p+k everytime you do this move. enters delta hold on MC so it is also pretty good but find this move too many inputs...

3) FC K. good after d+p. After that you give the new crumble. your options here is rather interesting. Not as good as goh's but still okay. You can go for low throws, or an attack. The game recommends d/f+k,k which I think is pretty bad as you end up at a disadvantage. p+k,p is better I think. My favourite is f,f+k which will stagger and followed by pk. The pk can be struggled up by the CPU at fast struggle setting but not normal struggle setting so I think it is pretty hard to struggle out of. The f+p stagger PK can be struggled out by a normal struggle CPU.

 

just discovered something interesting about delta hold. It seems that the damage is dependent on when you enter your commands. The longer you delay are input, the lower the damage! I never knew that

 

I saw an interesting vanessa sort-of-combo in one of the replay files on PS2 evo. But I don't play vanessa so I don't know if it's a reliable flowchart/combo.

OS FC,(MC) --> + --> ++ --> ++, --> +

So the first hit causes goh-crumple, second hit gives a stagger. f+P+K slams the opponent during the stagger, and df+P+K,K combos from the slam. If they fail to tech roll, the final kick slams for a ground kick. I'm guessing this is strugglable and TR'able all over the place, but it worked against a good japanese player, so it might be useful to try against anyone. Also, I've just learned that OS f+P is probably a safer option to get a stagger than f,f+K (recovers faster). Total damage is near 60 pts if they fall for it.

 

you do not want to use the f+p after the FC K (MC) as the f,f+k is confirmed (no risk) and it gives more damage and stronger stagger.

some more stuff.

OS
1) d+k,p looks better. If you see a MC, just hit the extra P for knockdown. If you see it blocked, the b+p is a force block, ie the opponent CANNOT crouch or d+p after block the first P unlike the old d+k,p,p. So you end up with a +2 frame advantage with the option to go into delta hold or f+p.

Does anyone has any experience in breaking delta hold? Is it simple to do multiple escapes?

 

Only one escape command can be entered per hit in the mount, according to my teammates. From my experience this seems to be the case.

 

you can test which is the better stagger by the
free training mode. On a normal struggle CPU, the CPU
will be hit by the PK after the f,f+k stagger but NOT
the f+p stagger.

 

some new stuff

after head crumble, ie d/f+p+k (hit)
p+k,p,d+k is more damaging than the f+p,k,k

p+k,p is not as good as last time but still okay. Good damage for the first hit, second hit leaves Vanessa with +2 so FC+P will interrupt low P. Second hit when blocked is -3 so a d/f+p will interrupt elbow.

After the low P reversal, you have to dash forward a little to connect the d/f+p+k.

Another question have anyone have any experience in breaking the sleeper hold?? Is it really simple or is it quite tough. I mean how much damage do the opponent usually eat? 10, 20 30???

 

cool stuff alan. I wish I had the motivation to learn vanessa more in depth....
Usually when I get the sleeper hold I get about 20-30pts. My friends usually dont recognize it fast enought to get out with only 10pts of damage. I rarely get 40 though...

 

It's supposed to be harder to escape in Evo...every time the CPU gets me with it she usually takes off 20-30 points.

 

I'm learning Vanessa so I have Some random question to you guys /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

what are your most common setups for the DS ++ sabaki, as far as I'm concerned I often use it after blocking a high rising kick, in this situation, people are threaten to be thrown so they usually go for the low punch so I mix it with throw and ff+k for happy dodgers, and you ?

Same question for the b+p, what are your setups and what flowchart do u use if it guarded (+5) ,hit (+9), and MC (+20). ( ver C frame stats but doesn't seem to have change a lot Imho)
By the way a hit gives u +9 but is the throw guaranted after the hit ? And after a MC is the opponent able to lp or not.
For this one I usually go for the DS ff+k (a lot of people are trying to escape in this situation) or throw mixup but what do you do in OS since u d'ont have the ff+k ?

And the last one, is the OS ++ still a special high or just a high in evo ?

Thanks

 

Thanks a lot.
I will experiment withe the + (MC) throw

For the ++ setup I noticed that after a + a lot of people tend to go on the offensive with hard middle attacks cause the frames stats are not very good for vane even if it hits (That' the same for Aoi ++) so I find it risky to go for the sabaki the first time , but this move is risky anyway.

I will experiment with the followup you mention and especially I will try to see if they are some backstagger options if the opponent tech, but I 'm not sure the d+K recovery will be fast enough to dash in and side kick or low throw. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I already thought about the ++, followup but I prefer to save it for the OS as you can do the first hit , see if it MCs or not, and then go for the canned standard string or go for the canned , + into takedown throw (funky /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Anyway I believe vanessa is a really interresting character, but man I find it kindah hard to be consistant with her. You can't rely on 2 or three very effective moves or big juggles like other characters, u really have to figure out your opponent's game especially in DS.

I also noticed that her []++ as been tweakned in evo as it seems not as invincible as in ver.c (it it goes through attacks less efficently I think) I am dreaming ?

 

i would like to ask, is there any easy way to do van's OS to come out more reliably after ? it seems to me that i usually ends up to be after the . right now, i am using and hold to get that move out. any better ways? thank you guys!

 

I don't have any problem with this move.
I don't understand why you're using ?
Perhaps you're getting the WS , if that's so you have to wait a little more before pressing the .Or try inputing a dash quickly just after the LP to go from crouch to standing instantly.

But really it seems to flow for me, so I can't help.