Single Table Command List in Excel Format

Hi all,

I have compiled a single Excel table of the command list:

VF5FS_Tabulated_Move_List.xls

If you download it, please add a comment to this thread to keep it bumped up!

If you don't have Excel, there is a *FREE* alternative in the OpenOffice Suite so make sure you get it!


The data is based on existing Excel tables per the credits on the document. However, I have modified the layout to provide a single table with no blank lines. This will allow you to do some handy things:

- Filter to compare the entire cast at the same time (e.g. DMG >20 across the entire cast)

- Pivot the data (If you would like to know more about how to do this, please ask below)

- Add your own notes and re-structure the data to your taste (Ref Numbers included to show the original order)

- Save, Print, Send... all the usual document stuff!


Happy New Year!

 

Version 1.0 is only as good as the original Excel source data, which is a little patchy in parts, but it should do for now. I wanted to have this up in time for the New Year! Please write any corrections on this thread and I will incorporate them. I will be updating the table soon, and will post on this thread each time I do so.

 

Sweet. Thanks. You should freeze the top pane

BTW, I just copied and pasted the command list to Excel; it worked well.

BTWBTW, How did you link the Excel spreadsheet. I'd like to do the same for the Lei thread. I am working on sheets for certain moves such as all fuzzy-able moves (-5 frames and lower) and moves that are + on block, etc.

Thank you,
Phanatik

 

Lol cool I will freeze it!

Copying the move list from here is cool but the graphical GPKs and line gaps don't work well for pivoting/filtering.

I had to host the spreadsheet on the website I run... Not sure how to work that for everyone's different spreadsheets but MAYBE for content managers the VFDC web masters would be kind enough to host here??

 

OK have frozen the top line so it's easier to scroll.

If anyone doesn't have Excel, there is a *FREE* alternative in the OpenOffice Suite so don't go without!

Spreadsheets really are the easiest way to view the stats, and they provide some extremely powerful ways to crunch the numbers in VF.

 

Finding 21+ damage mid attacks with decent active frames (in order to try crushing rising attacks) is still a thing right?

Personally i used libertine's excel spreadsheet and then added a bunch of other columns to keep track of other things like a move's reach or if it combos on NH/CH. I've even added a column for float/stagger followups, that way i have all my notes centralized.

Oh, i also converted the "Esc" column into a "Tracks" column. It's more intuitive for me that way: the information i usually need is which one of vane's moves tracks to a particular direction - not how my opponent can escape said move.

 

Hey Myke, sorry have only just see your question.

The advantage of a single table IMO is that you can get data for more than 1 character at once.

For instance, if you want to know moves >20 damage across the whole cast, you can filter this in the single table.

By having the data in Excel, you can also pivot it up to show whatever you like, e.g. per character, the number of moves (count) that are evadable back/front/both/none (e.g. who has the most linear or circular moveset)

Also, having your own version of the table allows you to mark it up with extra info and save it, which you can't do on VFDC. The most obvious additions to me were a column describing the evasive properties of moves/stances which for some reason is missing from all the frame data e.g. Pai 2KG evades high hits, Eileen 9P evades low hits (off the top of my head).

I think players should be encouraged to keep their own data and personalise it. They should also be encouraged to share their notes in spreadsheet form so that other players can learn from it. The movelist as it exists here is not very dynamic in that way.

Lastly, the 4 8 6 graphics on the movelist look great, but they are a nightmare to transfer between tables in a spreadsheet. the GPK4862_ notation travels much easier.

Those are some of the advantages as I see 'em.

 

^Perfect example of a personalised data set.

Erdraug would you be willing to share your notes so that others can see them?

 

Finding out how many frames to hit check a move. For example elbow move is 36 frames total, and 14 frames execution, so that means 22 (36 - 14) frames of time to hit check. I use excel for that since it can't be done with filters.

 

To be clear, Zass, you mean hit-checking an elbow before choosing to fuzzy or pressure? It's possible from your wording that you mean hit-checking an elbow before using a guaranteed string follow-up. The frames available to hit-check for a follow-up change because the second attack will cancel many of the recovery frames of the first attack, but the opponent will be in hit-stun. The frame data does not tell the entire story when it comes to what strings can be hit-checked. To be hit-checkable, any string follow-up must cancel more recovery frames of the previous attack than the execution of the follow-up plus the "hit-check time" combined.

 

Thanks Drift. To be clear, I meant both. I'll go over some cases to clarify what I mean.

a) Hit checking an elbow before choosing to fuzzy or pressure.
Wolf's is 36 frames total to execute. It hits on the 14th frame. That means I have 22 frames (36 - 14) to decide to fuzzy if it is blocked or pressure if hit. Since is +1 on hit, I actually have 23 frames to decide whether to pressure. Since it is +7 on counter hit, that means I have a more generous 29 frames to decide to pressure if I see the yellow flash.

b) Hit checking standing
Wolf's standing is 27 frames total to execute. It hits on the 12th frame. Normally this would mean I have 15 frames (27 - 12) to decide whether to pressure small (if blocked) or pressure big (if hit). However, note that since it is +2 on block, my effective time to decide is 17 frames.

c) Guaranteed string follow up #1
Wolf's comet hook takes 41 frames to execute, and hits on the 16th frame. This means I have 25 frames ( 41 - 16) to decide whether to fuzzy or pressure. The comet hook can be followed with a guaranteed followup. From my own testing, I have 40 frames of delay time to press that

d) Guaranteed string follow up #2
Wolf's body blow is 42 frames to execute, and hits on the 16th frame. That means I have 26 frames to react( 42 - 16) to decide whether to fuzzy or pressure. The body blow can be followed with a guaranteed follow up. From my own testing, I have 27 frames of delay time to press that

Does that make sense? I'm not sure I followed what you said in the last sentence at the end of your post:

From the testing I did, each string follow up had its own allowable delay time, on a move per move basis. The allowable delay varied per move. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

 

I believe you get the point, but your specific numbers cannot possibly be correct and it is those numbers to which I was referring.

If we just go off the data from the command lists:
Wolf 6P is 42 frames with 16 frames startup. On normal hit, it is -2. This would mean that NH 6P gives 42-16 = 26; 26-2 = 24 frames of hitstun. In order to combo, your next action must take 24 frames or less. If you delayed entering the second P for 27 frames after 6P hits, the opponent could guard, even if the second P had 0 execution frames. The command list says it has 21 frames of startup, however, so it would appear that you only have 3 frames after 6P hits in order to hit-check it. Of course, we know that this is not true. Take a look at Taka's 4P+K (16f, 44 tot, -6 NH, P follow-up 19f) and we can easily see that there are more than 3 frames available for hit-checking. Something about the command lists or system mechanics makes the command lists unreliable for what we're discussing.

 

I see what you mean.

Actually Wolf's is not guaranteed after , but his follow up is. Paradoxically, the followup takes 24 frames to execute, so it is even slower than the followup, but it combos.

So, to summarize the situation, after we have two options:

1)
Does not combo, and takes 21 frames

1) +
Does combo, and takes 24 frames

Something about the data in the command list is fishy here. What is the source of this data? In dojo mode we can confirm the accuracy of the exe time of first moves in input strings, but I don't think dojo mode shows us exe time of follow up moves. Where did this data come from?

 

Actually, dojo Detailed Info does give exe for all moves, even the ones in a string. I don't know how much I trust those numbers, though, so I tend to read the command lists like Tekken command lists: Forget about the "execution" of follow-ups and instead note which strings are natural combo and / or natural combo on counter or minor counter.

 

You're right, dojo does give exe for all moves, including the ones in string. However, dojo doesn't give the total frame count for moves. I'm guessing that's the count that is possibly incorrect in the VFDC moves list? Where did those numbers come from?

With that said, I can't explain the 21 vs 24 frame discrepancy in my above post. I'm clearly not understanding something fundamental here...

 

Thanks for the hard work.