So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a Game?

Question: How do game creators choose certain Martial Arts to appear in their fighting games and just how faithful are these adaptations to their source material?

I'm curious because I'd like to see certain martial arts and how they would translate into a 3D fighting game of VF caliber, namely Silat and Bokator or maybe a mix of the 2.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

I've been asking this question for years! While the Tekken/SC players have the answer (for most characters), A lot of ppl on this site don't believe its a legitimate question.

But if you want to see how real martial arts are translated into a 3D fighting game, I suggest you take a look at
UFC undisputed 3. They have:

Sambo
Karate
MuayThai,
Judo
Brazilian Jujitsu
Wrestling
Boxing

All fairly realistic.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Ha ha, well realism probably needs to get thrown out the window when 3D fighters are involved. I tend to look at games like UFC or Fight Night as Sports Simulators more than fighting games.

3D fighting games do tend to embellish certain styles. Take Goh for instance. Nearly half of his move list are definitely not Judo moves but I understand and accept the rationale behind it.

I would like to see more varied fighting styles across all the 3 big name 3D fighting games (Tekken, DOA, VF). So far all they've done is kind of ape each other. Every game has a Ba Ji Quan fighter, a Aikido expert, a Luchador, a kickboxer...etc etc. There are a number of Martial Arts throughout the world they could explore like Savate, Mongolian Wrestling (which admittedly is similar to Sumo), Kalis, Silat and so on.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

If you go back to the very early days of VF. Sega marketed Virtua Fighter as a "marital arts simulator" Of couse there were no UFC or Fight Night games at that time. But compared to the other fighting games, VF looked more like a UFC or Fight Night.

Yes UFC is a mixed martial arts simulator, and VF is more like a martial arts emulator, where the style are not necessarily meant to be representative of real styles but rather believable styles. That is styles that could be real. But I think its a case of under promise and over perform. I'm a Lei Fei player,
and Lei Fei definitly has a bunch of moves that are done in the Shaolin temple( perhaps not all of them) but as many as 30 to 40 % I would say are based off the movie versions of shaolin kung fu.

Many of Vanessa's moves are based off the real thing(which would kill you btw), Obviously some of Sarah's moves, and Jacky's moves can be seen in several Bruce Lee movies. (now were Bruce Lee's moves based on real martial arts?) Many of AOI moves are legitimate simulations. Many of Jean's moves defintely, Taka, and Jeffrey too. I just don't think Sega wants to come right out and say the moves are from real martial arts, because that would open up a can of worms. So they put the realism in there and the believability in there, while making no promises or claims.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

So what passes their criteria for a style to be incorporated into a game? I can get why fighting styles like Karate, Aikido, Jujitsu and other Japanese-origin Martial Arts gets incorporated i.e. the developers have more access to the source material via local Martial Artists.

So how about other styles? Like you mentioned Lei-Fei is a character based on Shaolin Kung-Fu but more than likely a number of his moves take cues from Hong Kong action films which may or may not be accurate to the real Martial Art. The same with Luchador/Mexican Wrestling. Do these styles get translated into games because of their more widespread popularity for people who are into martial arts?

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

I'd imagine this has a lot to do with it.

Then, styles have to be different from other styles that are already in the game from a visual and gameplay standpoint. I've had my fill of kung-fu stylists, while others might argue that we don't need pure boxing or muay thai because of Brad, or TKD or savate because of Sarah. In Tekken, however, they have an enormous cast with many similar characters, so they will add whatever style suits their fancy.

Last, the new styles have to fit the system that's in place. VF is a standup fighter with little emphasis on the ground game, so I wouldn't expect to see an amateur wrestler or BJJ practitioner without significant changes to the overall system. Again, in Tekken, characters play more similarly than they do in VF. So they don't seem to worry as much about trying to give the nuances of a style representation (grapplers having clinches, drinking having a true effect, automatic punch counters, etc).

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Since we're on the subject, how about the insane styles used in Tekken such as Lars' movelist or Miguel's? There are some characters in the game which do not have a declared Martial Art, Freestyle so to speak. Do the designers just pick and choose what's flashy or effective enough to look cool in a game?

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Sandwraith and Marly, I concur! Developers basically choose something that looks interesting and flashy, or make it into something that looks flashy. Take Goh for example, it wouldn't be flashy or worked in the system with his bland throws, so Sega made it flashy by adding brutal animations, amazing hit-throws and punch/kick attacks.

Dapheenom, you are absolutely correct that some characters play somewhat similar (Mishimas and palette-swaps), but there is plenty of character variety and nuances in Tekken. Drinking does recover some life and there are automatic parries/reversals in certain stances. There is even a character in that game whose 99.99% movelist consists of just punches. There were also certain other nuances such as boxers and kick-boxers having faster jabs than the rest of the cast before T6.

As Tekken cast is designed having arcade scene (especially Japanese) in mind, I believe it makes an effort to attract and please all sort of people. You are into martial arts, there is someone for you. You like brawlers, pick that one. How about wrestlers, check. Like evil characters with superpowers, that's him. That monster looks glorifying/scary/hideous like in X game, I'll pick him. You usually play anime fighters, that guy looks familiar. You have a thing for loli fighters, say hi to Lili and Alisa. Want to play someone with WTF fighting style who makes no sense at all, Bob is waiting for you. How about some cute androids, flying robots and fighting animals?!

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

And for anyone else, there's Paul...

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

I might be the minority on this, but I kinda want Goh to be more of a bare bones JUDO practitioner without a lot of flash. I would like to see even more real Judo throws and more of a push pull system when he latches onto someone. Give more of a feel like you're actually using someones momentum against them. Hell, I wouldn't care if he was nothing but grabs & parries. Ya, you need offensive strikes, but more of a trap the opponent mind game would be killer!

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

oh man, was starting to think I was alone in questioning the ridiculousness that is the T6 newcomers. It's kinda like they've given up on bearing even a slight resemblance to anything martial arts. Lars, Bob, Miguel, Alisa and while I'm at it, what the hell's a Zafina

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Hong Kong action films get their moves from real martial arts...not the other way around. Going back to the 70's, Gordon Liu (Master Kill/The 36th Chamber of Shaolin) (Lei-Fie was probably modeled after Gordon) practiced Hung Gar, as a matter of fact, he held a black sash in that system.

As a Northern Chinese martial arts practitioner, I can say many of the moves--kicks punches, and stances--the characters use are based on real technique. Most of Lei's kicks and punches are based on reality; I practice many of them myself. The thing that Sega did was alter the physics...Obviously, Aio, for example, would not be able to kick a person on the ground and that person bounce up off the ground.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Some of You guys are bugged out seriously.. Goh was about as realistically as judo can get in VF5 Vanilla. He was so much judo... He was Boring. Now with real violent intent to his moves he is dangerous. In Final showdown he is more traditional to his nature.. a Freaking crazed assassin. Lei Fei is as real as Shaolin Monks goes and not by just mocking movie standards. You can see where a lot ot the moves other characters have branched off from Shaolin. If anything Sega or any company comes up with the idea that if it looks good and we can get it to work.. then we will run with it Bottom line.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

To be totally honest, Zafina seems to be the most interesting to play and if I am not mistaken based on animal styles like "Spider" or some such.

Lars and Alisa I have no idea but I will admit Alisa is a lot more fun to play.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Yu Suzuki actually stated in one of his interviews that they'd choose flashy and cool looking moves because people like stuff like that.

That's why certain arts like Systema are not really used in fighting games. Systema is one of those effective but not particularly cool looking styles.

I usually don't like when game developers try to make their own fighting style, because most of them really don't have the knowledge to come up with something that looks decent. The Tekken crew however have enough experience that they came up with some great ideas, Zafina being the most interesting one.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

Fighting games do MA styles like so: Take all of the style's flashy bits, i.e. the moves that don't really work IRL, but give the style's representative "feel" in movies and in MA exhibitions, and make them actually work as dangerous moves. Done.

The reason Asian MAs cater well to this design principle? Because they contain a lot of flashy complicated bits that are more for show than for stopping an opponent in 2 seconds.

Aikido actually works, you say? Yeah, but not when done by a 60 lbs girl on a 300 lbs man. I don't care how good she is.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take Goh for example, it wouldn't be flashy or worked in the system with his bland throws, so Sega made it flashy by adding brutal animations, amazing hit-throws and punch/kick attacks.</div></div>
Pre-FS Goh's fighting style is very at odds with his Yakuza posturing outside of the ring. He acts all gangsta, but once he starts fighting he's extremely methodical with absolutely zero flash.

I kind of liked that disparity, because many real-life fighters are like that. But Sega changed him to incorporate his posturing inside the ring too, and as a result he seems a lot less "professional". I kind of wish the methodical judo man had split into a different character from Goh. I didn't find methodical-Goh to be boring at all.

The new Tekken fighters are crap. They're veering into 2D fighter territory, rather than the "MA simulation" design philosophy that VF started. Even DoA is better than this. If I want to play fantasy fighters with no basis in RL MA, I'll play Street Fighter etc.

Tekken did a fantastic job for Capoeira, though.

 

Re: So how does a Martial Art get adapted into a G

The Rage mode for T6 did put me off but I do like the miracle comebacks one can pull from the depths of defeat.

But yeah, Namco Bandai really jumped the shark with SC5. I...I just can't accept it as a SoulCalibur game anymore. And not to say its because of the fantasy elements, Voldo who moves like a crazed marionette is still one of the coolest fictional fighting styles ever! But with characters like Z.W.E.I and orb girl plus the absence of Yun Seong and Hwang was enough to make me cringe.

Personally I like fighting styles with a sense of "freedom of options" so to speak. Probably why I gravitate towards characters like Sarah or Hwoarang even though I have absolutely zero interest in Tae Kwon Do itself. Lei Wu Long for example is to me the best representation of a Freedom of Options character.

DOA...well...Maybe if I could look pass they overt sex sells marketing scheme I might give it a try. But from what I've played of the game, the Ninjas are ridiculously good.

 

Personally, I've always wondered how developers pick what style goes into their games, though I figured that it basically comes down to what seems cool to them, what's a "popular" style, and what style they can get a decent amount of information about. In the beginning with 2d games, I don't think there was a strong interest in being close to the real thing, but 3d games (and I think VF in particular) changed all that. I do think that Mlai[/size] got it right though, in that these games focus on trying to make the different styles the characters use look right, not necessarily fight right. Though to be fair, I have seen some small attempts with the 3d fighters.

While I know it's not 100% accurate, the VF games seem to be the closest to the real thing in terms of how the styles should feel when using them... FS in particular just sort of feels right. I know there is a lot of exaggeration, and some of the portrayals are iffy (Like how Jacky these days seems to be more a portrayal of Bruce Lee’s movie antics and not necessarily his actual Jeet Kune Do art), but for the most part you get the idea. Lei-Fei in particularly I really appreciate, since not only do his moves and stances look rather authentic, but you actually have to fight with his stances instead of just fighting from them, which is pretty much how authentic kung fu actually works (I’m also amused by the fact that because of some of his moves, he’s the closest thing to a Piguazhuang stylist in this game, and considering how long Akira’s been in VF, it’s kind of funny that it’s taken this long to see even the slightest example of his style’s counterpart.) Shun Di’s drunken style, while more movie based than anything, still relies on confusing the hell out of your foe and using a lot of misdirection, similar to the real thing. Same thing with Pai’s Lost Track Boxing (Mizongquan); that style is all about speed and misdirection in real life. Jean’s Kyokushin influenced Karate will straight up murder you if you let it, and if you’ve seen Kyokushin matches you can tell someone did their homework on how those stylists fight, and what strategies they like to employ. So there’s some attempt here at making the styles actually function somewhat close to how they would in real life, as well as make them look good.

Tekken seemed to mostly go for the “cool†factor, though in the beginning there seemed to be some care in making their respective styles look right. I still remember being impressed with how Tekken 3’s styles seemed to have the right feel to them: Hwoarong’s Tae Kown Do looks a lot like the dynamic version that’s used in tournaments these days, while his master’s looks more traditional. Lei Wulong’s Five animals looks close to the actual thing... even though I don’t really like the stance they picked for his Tiger moves. And as a fledgling practitioner of Northern Chinese martial arts, I just love Feng Wei. But I agree with the overall assessment here that realism, isn’t really what Tekken has been aiming for primarily... mainly “cool factor†and “personality.†And now that there are plenty of characters in the game with no discernable fighting style, but rather movements that seem to compliment their overall personality, I don’t think that can be disputed anymore. At least Leo’s Baji is decent looking.

Soul Calibur... heh. I think they threw realism out the window with the third installment onward. At least SOME people’s styles have the right “feelâ€... Mitsurugi, Xianghua, Kilik, Raphael and a couple of others have enough in their movements to look like the real thing. Though of course they are greatly exaggerated, and the Chinese weapon users in particular seem to use more of the Contemporary Wushu version of their weapon skills rather than the traditional and more combat oriented techniques. To be fair though, there was some attempt at some real weapon usage: for instance, Xianghua has a lot of evasion and counter tactics, which is pretty much how you use a Chinese sword, Maxi is all about continuous offence, which is pretty much the nunchaku’s forte, and Kilik fights best at mid to long range. Still though, this is Soul Calibur we’re talking about, with crazy weapons and even crazier characters… and the latest version pretty much threw more realistic fighting right out the window. Anyone looking for realistic styles in a weapon based fighter had best stick with playing the Bushido Blade games.

Anyway, this was supposed to be about how styles get picked in games, and really, I think it just all comes down to how cool the style looks, and if they have enough accessible information about the style to make it at least look close enough to the real thing. Sometimes, they want to put a decent amount of real stuff in there to make it feel authentic (Virtua Fighter). Sometimes they want to focus more on looking cool and powerful (Tekken, Soul Calibur). And sometimes, it seems they don’t really care about realism (DOA, later Tekken’s and Soul Calibur’s, most 2d games.).

 

Is MoCap used in development? I remember in the lead-up to SoulCalibur 3, I remember Namco posting some behind the scenes videos of how they developed the movements of Zasalamel and Tira.

I wonder if they ask the Martial Artist to don a MoCap suit, do a couple of hundred moves, piece stuff together, play with the frame-rate and damage points and boom= combo list.