Some basic Vanessa questions.

I played a little bit of VF5 when it came out, but I didn't exactly have any good connection to play with her. I would consider myself fairly average at the time of this posting, I do some stupid stuff that gets me punished but I think I have the basic idea of Vanessa down.

This isn't a bad thing I'm saying, but she seems very direct and straight forward to me. Most of her combos aren't tricky in method, even if I'm getting kind of messed up on some of the inputs simply because I'm unfamiliar with the pace of this game so far or maybe I just suck at it, either way..

Is she as simple as she seems in practice, or am I missing some part of the bigger picture with her?

I'd appreciate any and all help on this one, I feel like I'm using her too simply regardless of how good or bad I'm doing. I'm feeling really confident with her, regardless.

 

Assuming it's her Final Showdown version you're looking into now (which has changed significantly enough from her vanilla VF5 version), I'd say she has her quirks that force players to play her a little differently than most of the cast. This is especially the case with her Defensive Stance. If you're used to playing characters whose offense revolves around forcing your opponent to guess throw vs mid-launcher, I could recommend focusing on Offensive Stance first, because this fundamental kind of threat doesn't really factor into DS. (Even if you're fighting someone who never shakes off staggers letting you always combo out of 6P+K+G, you'd still end up in OS.) But if you completely abandon DS, you're missing out on some of her best footsie tools.... Add to the mix the fact that she has fewer options now for switching between the stances (even if I'm finding worlds more uses for the 6P+K+G shoulder tackle than comboing into her old high backfist switch), and she effectively forces you to learn twice as many moves as you would with any other character.

Simple? Eh, not really.... I'd say she's simple-enough in execution, but very complex in terms of the planning and memorization she necessitates.

 

hello guys Im new to VF in general so sorry if my questions seem a little basic/vague.

I only been using Vanessa these last couple of days and I have been using DS exclusively. is there a particular game plan I should follow while using this stance?

I haven't been using OS because I want to learn her moves without being overwhelmed.

Or as a newbie should I learn OS first while using DS sparingly?

thanks in advance for any input.

 

You're doing it right. Pick a stance and learn that one first.
When you feel completely comfortable with it, swap to the next one and learn it as well. Then you may incorporate both.

There's no particular gameplan for either. There's enough versatility with both that you can pretty much achieve the same results with each one (but they each have their own perks, and certain matchups can go slightly better depending on the stance you use; then again, player/opinion-based).

Watch videos from top Vanessa players like Kaibutsu and Pekora, and take note of what they do. The moves they use most frequently, when they use it, and why they use it.

Understand the followups (on hit and on block).
The most important thing about VF, and probably the hardest to learn from a beginner's perspective, is not combos. It's hit-confirms. Once you learn how to hit-confirm, a whole new world opens up.

There's a big difference between following up after a crouch jab that hit, and a crouch jab that was blocked. If you always follow up automatically with no visual confirmation, you'll get pummeled after having your crouch jab blocked.

After taking note of the most used moves, understand what makes them good. Study each one. The advantage on hit and block. The range. The pushback. The possible followups. If it's linear, half-circular or full-circular. Is it fuzzyable? CD fuzzyable? Should you ETEG after it?

Vanessa is hard because you have to do that for a lot more moves than most characters.


But you'll learn soon enough that each player has their own set of cards. You don't need the full deck to play properly. Pick your weapons (just make sure they're good), and put them to good use.

Think of it as a game of Magic: The Gathering. You only use 60 cards. There are a hundreds of ridiculously good cards in the game. You don't need them all to win.
And you don't need every good move a character has to win.

Depending on the character, that is.
Certain characters have such a small moveset, that it's important you use the vast majority of the repertoire, or at least know precisely when to use every piece.

Say, Guile in SF.
Akira has a short command list, and a slightly shorter "useful" movelist. You wouldn't have to use everything, but it'd be good to have everything at the ready just in case, simply because his moveset is smaller.

 

What is the general plan in DS, so far I am relying on fishing for CH 6K into armlock, KK, 1P, Intercept position shenanigans, 3K+G+G, and 6PKK.

I don't use 3P+K much as it is rather difficult to set up correctly.

In addition I find that her anti-step tools are fairly situational as they usually only track to one side.

Any stuff I should be incorporating into my DS game?

 

For one you don't have to set-up 3p+k. Let your opponent dictate when you use it. If you have someone that loves to evade towards your chest then lay the smack down. If you have an opponent who loves to do strings that end high then duck the last part and lay that smack down.

In DS the plan is do what you want/do what works. Everyone plays it with a different mentality. Some players use it to always try and stuff their opponents offense to frustrate them. Others may use it because they simply don't feel comfortable fighting some characters in OS. I for one can't stand fighting Brad in OS.

1p+k can be a good round starter. I didn't see 66K in the list of moves you use and if not that is a travesty. DS is the only stance where she can go into backturned at will so that can sometimes be useful when you're near the wall. If you're having problem with steppers then don't forget about k+g, but I always feel there are better options. If you aren't using 33_P(while rising P) then your simply not using DS effectively. It's 13 frames from crouching, 14 from standing and it can be a great pressure tool.

 

Truewiseman! What's up, FlyMike speaks highly of your Van.

Thanks for the tips. OS has the simpler mid launcher/grab mixup going for it, so I'm trying to work on general approach and footsie in DS.

I will add 66K to my anti-step tools, I know it's there, but she has so many moves it's easy to forget what you have. And thanks for the better input for while rising P. Speaking of that move, when it hits on CH and you get a stagger, what's the best followup? I tend to just throw out a 3K, but I'm sure there are better options.

 

And some poking with , ws and some fishing with (confirm the last hit) and you're just about set.

 

66K is your DS friend, in my experience.

DS is much better at punishing sidesteppers than OS, so regular use of her 2K+G, K+G and (sometimes) 6P series can really make sidestep-happy players think twice.

DS does lack 'range' though, so a lot of rushing forward is required. In close she has a lot of tools. Her 1P has to be one of the best sabakis in the entire game. It's just so useful, so often.

 

If your intention is to catch evades with circulars, then yes, DS has a tad more options.

But considering you can pretty much catch evades with throws and delays your strings a little bit, I believe OS can do pretty well vs evades.

There's only one thing I've learned to love about DS (since I'm still mostly an OS player), and that's 2K+G. Stomach to the foreground, back to the wall, hit 2K+G, the hit the wall, 3K to side crumple -> free combo. And it's a biggie. It catches people so often, whether they're close or far, it's a huge reward for the risk you take.

Since it avoids highs, it's full circular, the range is bananas and it provides me with a pretty nice 95-120+ damage combo wall situations, it's probably one of my favorite moves in her arsenal.

 

Yeah isn't that the one from the Acebreaker video? It's crazy how wall staggers and whatnot extend combos even from having a wall to the side instead of the back.

 

Yes, Ace posted a video with a bunch of combos like that. There are more japanese dudes with those videos. Some with even more damage than his though. Every character has a circular move into wall stagger into crumple that leads to huge damage. One, or multiple circular moves. It's good to learn those and set them up =)

 

Her OS stuff is very sidesteppable. A lot of what she has simply doesn't track well even on delays. Her 6PPK series tracks pretty well on delay, but I get sidestepped a lot using just about anything else but K+G (which is full circular, of course). Even her 4PK doesn't track very well, which surprised me because it looks full circular.

You can throw people who sidestep at random, but not when they're doing it do dodge your extremely linear attacks. It seems to be one of Vanessa's bigger weaknesses, unless everyone else is just as linear.

Speaking of sidestep punishment, DS KK is so good. I get CHs out of that very often. Really good when there's a ringout danger since most people will go sidestep crazy at that point.

There's a lot I like in OS, and I do mostly play in that because players online tend to be defensive, and obviously that's when being in OS is best, but I get punished a lot by smarter players with better movement. Her 9K is a great combo launcher though, and I get probably far too much mileage out of her Intruder Step into tackle/punch/rolly polly than I probably ought to.

 

In OS you can use or to beat steppers to her chest I believe. If you're unsure of the direction delay + works pretty well.

 

Yeah, the high elbow is nice. I've found you can connect 9K on sidesteppers most of the time though, because they always sidestep and try to counterattack.

Also, hi! Glad we got to play together a couple of days ago. I learned a couple of new combos seeing you fight.

 

In the OS i recently just started restricting Vanessa's 9k for defensive purposes. The hawk strike beats out lows...so its a practical defense against 2p mashers and against people who always do 2k when they are rising off the ground. The hawk strike is very unsafe if blocked so it cannont be thrown out randomly.

 

Use 9P. Safe on standing block (+2), ignores lows.

 

9P is a beautiful move, and gives a guaranteed decent combo on all characters. Not something to over rely on but it's sometimes worth throwing it out to put on mass pressure in a round.

 

Hello, I was wondering if I could have some hands on sparring with a vanessa players to see how its done. any takers adopting this noob on xbox? I greatly Appreciate it

 

Question,

in her OS stance im having trouble ending a combo with 3kk as most of acebreakers combos in OS can end with 3kk.

Basically, when i try to end with 3kk a down attack comes out. am i doing it too fast or slow, some help would be appreciated.