Some more VF4 thoughts - mostly Pai and Aoi

Just some stuff about mostly Pai and Aoi that I found out while I was playing at SVGL.

Pai:
My favorite new move is f,b+P,P. The first P is a moderate speed palm to the face area, but press P again and she does a rushing palm with her back hand, similar to Lau. The rushing palm, even if blocked, pushes the opponent pretty far back. Pretty useful, except for the somewhat slow execution of the initial punch.

f+P+K is her inashi, so far reverses high punches or kicks, not sure if there’s any other levels of it, but unlike 3 she actually drags the opponent around, the animations for which I forget at the moment.

f,f+K+G – a wushu style butterfly kick. It has a pretty huge execution time however, so probably used sparingly, but it floats/bounces the opponent pretty well, and you can tack on a f,f+P,K or something if the opponent doesn’t tech roll.

f+K,K – This one’s known already, thought I’d mention it again, two leaping for ward kicks, again floats/bounces pretty well, tack on a f,f+P,K. Pretty useful if used in a canned combo like d/f+P,P,K,K, pushes the opponent back pretty far. Comes out kinda slow though.

b+P+K+G initiates her stance, where she kinda turns away from you, and you have a certain window of time to enter commands. If you don’t, she’ll just stand there with her back turned. I think during the stance K does a turn around sweep, and K+G does some sort of roundhouse which can be followed up with a PPP, three quick punches (not her standard PPP).

She also has some sort of weird stance which I think is d+P+K, can’t remember, but she sorta steps off center on one knee and waits there for a second or two, not sure if it’s a move or reversal stance or what. I did hit the CPU Lau with it once, it looked like he tripped over my leg but I wasn’t sure that exactly happened. Looks kinda like Lion’s d+P+E from 3, but without the arms.

Generally I’ve found that it’s harder to poke with her standard attacks like u/f+K and f+P since they have a bit of a delay now, but her new rushing palm makes for some real interesting possibilities. Her b+P and b,b+P seem as speedy as ever though. She definitely has huge float potential, the CPU Pai MC’ed me with something, did a PPPK which bounced me off the wall, then followed with another PPPd+K!!! One more thing, her d/f+P,P,f+P, on an MC, floats SKY HIGH, I’m talking nearly Fighting Vipers high.

Aoi:
I think Jeff mentioned it, guard canceling her sweep is no longer as quick as in 3, there’s a very noticeable recovery time, which definitely weakens that aspect of her game. Her other main GC, on a f+P,P, also seems to have a slight delay as opposed to 3.

She does have two new standing throws from what I can tell, f,f+P+G is a shoulder breath throw, f,b+P+G is a return the wrist throw followed by a pin, on this second one it seems like there are more parts to it, since the damage is relatively low and her execution seems kinda slow.

Her b+P+K+G isn’t a stance in the test version, just her inashi. Her b,f+P has her doing two sort of punches at the opponent, it has to MC for you to tack on a f+P+G throw apparently, even though there were certain times I swear I got it but didn’t. Her D,d/f+P automatically tacks on a throw on an MC as said before. She also has some a new string, starting with f+K+G which is a high kick to the head(like the other characters except Aoi and Pai), then a P which is a special punch, then I couldn’t figure out what comes after that, but her standard K,K did execute pretty fast afterwards.

She can do u+K+G at any time, which is her high pounce from 3, I’m pretty sure it just hits high. Also her d/f+P doesn’t always knock down as I think it said it Rich’s FAQ, might just be the test version. Her b/d+K on an MC knocks down at some weird angle where you can follow up with a sweep, but not with P,K or something like before.

Quick note on Jeffry, he can also do his high pounce at anytime. One of this new moves, K+G, has him rolling forward with a kick, kinda like Wolf’s b,f+K.

Regarding tech rolling in general, it seems that you can be hit out of the handspring motion on a simple P+K+G recovery, since the CPU Pai pressures you like crazy, so in some cases it may be better just to fall to the ground. If you do a d+PKG or u+PKG recovery I believe there’s a window where you can be attacked as you’re getting up. Also certain moves WILL hit on the ground even if it's not an OTB combo. For example, Shun is lying there on the ground from one of his moves, and Jerky can get him with a low backfist->sweep.

I was there pretty much all morning and most of the afternoon, had a couple of challengers here and there but otherwise the machine wasn’t that busy. Tekken Tag had more people than VF4. I think Bryan’s right, probably hogging the machine makes people want to play less, I know I saw some guys who were watching pop some tokens in after I left. One last thing, goddamn scrubby Lau players, Lau’s floats are much easier to do here, hence scrubs can do pretty well with him. I’ll see what else I can figure out tomorrow.

 

Nice report, David!

Pai seems like more fun now (some more lively options and big, flowing moves), do you agree? Yeah, I knew we'd see double pppk combos, from the CPU no less. I hope people are starting to get inspired about what's possible, even in the face of having to re-learn some things like movement.

Regarding Aoi's hit throw after D/F+P, I think the command has changed in newer versions; as the command was listed like you have it on the AM2 site at first, then they changed it.

Yeah, people probably do gat a little intimidated by constant squatters on the machine , but it sucks to drive almost an hour then sit around and wait. Maybe I'll see if more people will come up next time I go to Golfland.

We (jeff, rich, you, jason, myself, and anyone else with info) should all start compiling soon into a tangible early VF4 Faq. What do you guys think?

Spotlite

 

f,b p,p is far more useful than just that. remember it inashi's one handed punches and i think some kicks as well.

can't find any good follow-ups to f pk inashi so far, besides d/b kg sweep

remember d pk and u pk are evade reversals..

Aoi
Hans found a new throw in addition to the ones you've mentioned, it's f,d/f pg. kind of weird, pretty sure it's different from the ff pg throw, but i haven't done it myself. also has a new low throw, d/b pkg

Fuck, i know it's been mentioned before, but with jeffrey, after d k, it seems oyu can tag on any throw you want.. not technically a toe kick of doom guaranteed type thing, but the game just consider's you in throw range after the toe kick.

lau is a BEAST. f p,p, if the elbow staggers, sets up beautifully for a throw, d/f,d/f pg, b,f pg, etc. my god, i was eating people with it. if you thought vf3's f p, bf p, p MC throw was annoying....

-jason

 

OK just a few more things after getting the chance to play with Jason and some other skilled players (which I didn't catch the names of):

I guess Pai's rushing palm combo isn't as great as I thought against humans, at close quarters it seems really slow to come out, easily MC'ed, though I never did get it to inashi. At this point it seems better suited as a mid-range pressuring tactic.

Pai's f,f+K thrust kick doesn't knock down but usually staggers the opponent heavily, which can be recovered out of.
Also she can also do a high stomp at any time, but it's her high crane stomp from previous games that nobody ever uses.
I do agree with Bryan that Pai has more options to explore here, so far in the way I've played it I've done less poking and more pressuring with her new moves and strings and stuff.

I'm pretty sure Jason was right about Aoi's new throw, as f,d/f+PG, it's Heaven and Earth style throw. From what I could figure out, I don't think you can roll the joystick, you have to tap out the motions. It's easy to mess up and get her regular PG or d/f+PG throw though.

Aoi's d/b+P is weird, she sort of hold her hand up high to wind up, but ends up hitting low. Even if it hits a low guarding opponent it does some sort of stagger/break guard, not sure what the followup opportunities are. Also her sweep on an MC is hard to ground throw off of as before, but I've noticed it's pretty safe after a PPPd+K, at least if the opponent doesn't recover.

Just to elaborate a bit more on Wolf, his b,b+PG has him dodging backwards a bit to fake out the opponent, then rushes forward to grab them. I think he ends up holding the opponent from behind, like after f+PG, f+PG. Also his b+PG seems the same as his regular PG suplex, but with much greater range. Wolf is definitely a monster with his speed and throwing range.

About Akira's new 3-hit, maybe the last two hits are guranteed after the first hit? That was the impression I got, but then this was only against the early CPU characters.

That's it for now, Bryan made a good suggestion, some should throw all this stuff into a preliminary FAQ, like a VFDC forum joint production.

 

Geez, I'm not sure if Wolf needs that b,b+P+G throw. CD backwards -> GS is already insanely useful.

 

Some smaller things I noticed today, I'm having a tough time float off Pai's sidekick, since in 3 I used to get a lot of MC sidekick -> PPPsweep. Not sure if the properties have been changed or I'm just not hitting them. Also I believe her DplusK,K kick->sweep hits on the ground.

About Aoi's b,d/fplusP (formerly d,dplusP) it seems a lot more useful now. Its range seems slightly increased and will stagger or knock down in certain situations. Not sure yet what followups are possible.

Also I'm getting a lot better feel for the throwing system. Due to the initial catch animation, throws are no longer instantaneous (although some may still be), but almost all throws have a much larger range, I think if the opponent is within the arms reaching out animation, they'll get snagged. I'm still iffy on the correlation between distance and throw execution but I've noticed that in some cases at least, even at close quarters the catch animation will still appear.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Yamcha on 07/22/01 11:47 PM (server time).</FONT></P>