Some words on VF4... Stripped from PS2 IGN

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Chanchai, Feb 2, 2001.

  1. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Taken from PS2.ign, thanks for the mention UK Kid! Hmmm, I don't know what to think but I'll write that stuff later. For starters though, I'm way too fond of the Escape button! Sounds like Andy's prediction or idea of movement in VF4 is true.

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    Yu Suzuki Speaks About Virtua Fighter 4

    It's the fighting game the world's been waiting for. And we've got the first gameplay details.

    February 1, 2001

    Japanese site Famitsu.com recently had a chance to sit down with Yu Suzuki for a discussion regarding Virtua Fighter 4. We have a feeling the powerful Famitsu crew got a chance to see the game in motion - but of course, they weren't able to show us anything aside from the character shots we posted yesterday on the IGNPS2 site. Instead, they've provided the next best thing (and probably the best thing, if you're a hardcore VF fan) - first gameplay details!
    It seems that Virtua Fighter 4 will move a few steps back from VF3 while also progressing a few steps forward. The development team is experimenting with the possibility of reverting to a three button set-up, as was the case for the first two entries in the series. In this case, the joystick will be used to freely move characters about in eight directions. Note that this is only under test, and nothing has been finalized. So if you're a fan of part 3's four button setup, don't freak out just yet.

    A whole set of new features are being planned for the fighting engine. The effect of a technique will vary with distance, for instance. Also, the team is considering including a system where a character can be downed by means other than just being attacked - we're not 100% sure what this implies, and given the subtlety of Virtua Fighter's gameplay, we're not going to speculate. Finally, AM2 is attempting to make the game more accessible for beginners. By pushing guard, a few of the more advanced techniques will be automated. Suzuki comments that it's difficult in choosing the level of automation. Hopefully, this will be just an option, selecting similar to "Auto Blocking" in the Street Fighter series.

    New frills, from characters to costumes are also being implemented. Suzuki isn't sure just yet how many will be added, although we'll point out that past VF games have seen two new characters with each edition. Characters will also have new costumes. The one player side will be in line with the rest of the series, but Suzuki wants to greatly change the two player side. Suzuki comments that they're not able to show the new costumes to the public, leaving us wondering what those things that Lau, Pai and Akira are wearing in the below pictures are supposed to be. Each character has a new visual style and more adult expressions. Additionally, the team is using the movie-style camera techniques they learned in Shenmue for the victory poses.

    We still don't have a good mental picture of what the game will look like, unfortunately. The three character portraits we shared yesterday (they're accessible in clearer form below this article as well) are being drawn by the Naomi 2 board, so you can probably expect similar quality (as mentioned, though, the costumes aren't final. Suzuki comments that the game's stages will be more realistic. For instance, when executing a throw, the impact of a character striking the ground will cause a vibration. Also, footprints will be left in the snow.

    We'll get our first look at the full game at AOU 2000, which is being held on February 23rd at the Makuhari Messe just outside Tokyo, Japan. As previously mentioned, AM2 will be showing just a movie of the game running off Naomi 2 - but we're still expecting to be amazed. A release date for the game has yet to be decided, although development is, according to Suzuki, progressing smoothly.

    One more thing…. According to the article at Famitsu.com, Virtua Fighter 4 is just that - it's not Virtua Fighter 3.5 or Virtua Fighter Plus. Suzuki feels that a significant evolution has been accomplished for the series with this new addition. He wanted to make sure the "4" in the title was justified, and given the power of the Naomi 2 (and, eventually, the PS2), and the talents of AM2, we expect no less.

    -- Anoop Gantayat, Contributor

    <hr></blockquote>

    On a side note, to Myke. I've noticed that Anoops has been contributing to PS2 IGN. He's one of the writers for DC IGN (not that I like his articles, a lot of them annoy me). I'm curious if some transition is going on.

    -Chanchai

    Notes/Thoughts (Added after reading the article in full):

    -Hmmm, again, I'm too fond of Escape button, but I can adjust. The series has always evolved, so I guess I can only expect to adapt to the new system.

    -range being a bigger factor than it was (it was a factor for some moves since VF2 wasn't it? Maybe even VF1? Rich? hehe), I personally like that (could add emphasis to closer combat, etc...)

    -Don't know what to think about the whole Guard button comment. Kind of scared, kind of interested, hope we don't have neutral block or DoA1 reversals (At this point, I admit to really liking DoA2 on arcade reversal settings, love it, of course that's for DoA2, don't want VF to become DoA2 or anything). However, we'll see how it comes out in practice, it might be more towards Aoi and overpowering her with instant easy as hell to do inashi... but that could be very interesting actually (if not very annoying and console-set DoA2ish). I hope we don't have Tekken like throw escapes.

    -Level of detail to background, ah, sounds very nice. We shall see the effects. However, the comment about grounding an opponent... It would be hysterically obnoxious if a character New-Taiwan stepped himself a ditch and tripped in it. However, I'm guessing that the landscape will require you to tread the stage carefully. It'll probably have areas where you are not to run right over and slopes may have a bigger effect. Who knows, the comment was vague, but this is what I *interpreted*.

    Those are some of my initial thoughts, what about you guys?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 2/2/01 07:55 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  2. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    The loss of the E button will impress Shroud who
    never got into it in the first place. I want them
    to toss all the buttons and get down to some old
    school Karate Champ sheeyat. Bring on the dual
    sticks boys!

    GE
     
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Karate Champ rules! But I don't want none of that adopted into VF!!!!

    I hope that if they do free-movement, I hope they'll do a good job of it. Maybe the first useful one. However, i gotta admit that after experimenting Soul Calibur's free movement ain't that bad (run circles around your opponent with d,G,d,G,d,G,etc...).

    However, I really want to have the ability to still move in triangular foot patterns... ANGLES BABY!!! (as in attacking at angles)
     
  4. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    well I was kinda kidding about the two sticks! : )

    I would like to see it used again. I really loved
    it.

    GE
     
  5. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    "...the team is considering including a system where a character can be downed by means other than just being attacked."

    - just speculation, but this could be to do with balance. instead of big moves (jeffry's baseball pitch for example) simply having longer recovery times, they could actually cause the aggressor to lose their balance completely and fall to the ground if missed. this would be kind of like shun's sacrifice moves, meaning more caution and good timing would be needed so as to not get punished for missing your move. this could be an expansion on virtua fighter's all ready excellent balance of speed/power/recovery for each move.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    thats brilliant. so itd be speed/power/recovery/and balance-position
    and if they were on a certain kind of ground, depending on the position, they could fall.
    the question is how hard they want to make it
    imagine having to take very serious consideration of the ground as well as the opponent. 'i cant do this move here on the stairs cause ill fall!'
    awesome
    its already hard enough just worrying about the opponent. but still i like the idea
    i hope they make the ai really good, and not learning your moves, but more lifelike.
     
  7. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Overall, it does sound pretty good, but keep this in mind.

    Yu Suzuki seems to be emphasizing that with each game, he does want it to appeal to the devout (willing to learn more) as well as the beginners. Given that, the experimental aspects are probably going to be less of a factor than they could have been. They'll indeed still be a factor (obviously), but I think he won't make it so you'll fall down every 5 steps as it would frustrated those who never even had a grasp of the system to begin with or are just not adapting to terrain effects.

    Of the popular fighting games, VF3 is one of the very few that has actual slopes and terrains. VF4 will extend that, I'm sure, but not so much that it isolates a lot of gamers.

    On the other side of the coin, the main audience probably is Japanese gamers, but certainly a focus towards the rest of Asia, North America, and Europe will be in mind. I'll let you interpret that any way you want.

    As a port to PS2, if I do get the PS2 version, I hope a decent arcade stick is out for the system by then before I have to make one...

    I should stick this on another thread, but this is my speculation:

    Arcade VF4 on Naomi 2 and PS2 version being developed around the same time. Perhaps this is Sega's way of getting a version of VF4 for console done before the end of the year. It may not be that good of a version as the Naomi 2, but it'll be a console version that comes out soon enough, allowing Sega to profit on it (given an assumption that VF sells at least in Japan, and most likely will for PS2 in the US). We'll probably see an XBox port of the game and it probably will be a port of the Naomi 2 version (depending on development kits and how compatable/comparable the platforms are). The exclusive is probably only 6 months to a year. Myke mentioned DoA2 and made a good example, and since the start of these VF4 to PS2 announcements, I feel the same way. I doubt we would see a DC version, though it's possible. As for Gamecube, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a port for that and I don't know which architecture it would be based on, I don't know squat about the Gamecube's hardware.

    In addition, think of all the ports of VF and VF2, good or crappy on the sega platforms as well as PC. You can also consider Fighting Vipers as a way of trying to "sell a piece of VF3" in the days of the Saturn, hell, it was a better port of VF3 than say Gamegear VF :p Traditionally, VF sells, it'll probably be one of the big flagship titles for Sega and especially a sign of their new policy as a Third Party developer.

    Just a thought.

    -Chanchai
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    re: will it be too hard. yeah, thats why i said it just depends on how hard they want to make it. they could go either way, id prefer it harder, but if they add anything too innovative, it will scare people off. but now, they arent in as much as a position to care as when they were sinking. still, the main goal is to sell games, thats the bottom line in business, and sneak in as much cool stuff as possible without pissing people off. i think theyl probably let suzuki go hog wild doing anything he wants, even if he wants to make it too complex (i dont think he has to answer to anyone anyway...), because soj really wants to win the love of japanese gamers and this is their absolute best chance. for example, jet set radio, shenmue, were undoubtably designed to appeal more to the japanese than anyone else, its too bad they were appreciated over there as much as over here.

    you mentioned that there might be a xbox port. i hope so. gc would be even better. the 'industry' thinks xbox wont do well in japan, japanese gamers seem very fickle and i dont doubt it. im not sure but i think ms is going to release xbox in japan very late or not at all? i thought i heard that a long time ago. (because of the unlikeliness that they will do great there.)
    the reason sega picked sony of all systems, for vf is probably because it had sold so much in japan. soj has some kind of obsession with selling in japan. they should have given up over there. it was soj who brought sega down these last few steps, sega was selling and doing ok everywhere else.

    the ps2 vf is supposed to be designed from the ground up for ps2. do they mean in terms of graphics or gameplay? if its graphics, a naomi2 to ps2 port, assuming am2 will push n2 as far as it goes, its going to not be pretty. mentioned that before. yada yada. everybody flame me :)

    how old is suzuki? how long do you think he'll keep making games? ditto with miyamoto. its too bad those guys make so few games. i wouldnt mind namco/someone totally copying vf, atleast thered be more games.
     
  9. Finsane

    Finsane Member

    I hope they add some more moves you really have to practice to execute. Like Akira's DLC (I had to practice it and it's still hard). It's really rewarding to finally pull them off.
    I also hope there will be at least some kind of quick escape move. If they go with free movement, maybe the first step could be like an evasion.

    ...........
     
  10. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Just a thought.

    I've played the VF and Tekken series since their first US incarnations in the arcade... (Doesn't mean much for skill, so don't take it like I'm saying this entitles me to anything, I certainly am not) Is it me or do you think the popularity of the Tekken series was strongly influenced by the release and hype behind Tekken 2 on the PSX? I don't know about your area, but it seemed that around the West Coast and what not, Tekken 2 had a following, but it didn't seem to be popular on a huge level until "everybody" bought it when it was released on the PSX and decided they were God's gift to the series.

    Anyways, popular or not, I play games I like (as does it seem much of us that are on this forum and live in the Western Hemisphere Australia). But I just thought it would be food for thought. Thoughts on potential levels of competition and people encouraged to feel they understand a game (whether or not they do), at least encouraged enough to go play it actively and have a clue of what's going on at the arcades.

    If so, could bring in the good and the bad, but at least it ain't all bad. Though it would be a pity if 90% of the posts on VFDC in a year and a half consist of "I'LL KICK ALL YOUR ASSES AT VF4!!!" (However, I'm sure that as always, the community will prevail in shutting these people up/images/icons/smile.gif)

    -Chanchai

    P.S. I guess it's yet to be determined the success of the PS2 by the time VF4 comes out (obviously), also depends on which area we're talking about. As for the US, I guess Bush keeps insisting on the "R" word, who knows what that might do/images/icons/tongue.gif

    P.S.S Despite that last comment, let's not turn this thread into a political forum/images/icons/smile.gif (We can create other threads for that, but I won't debate)
     
  11. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    My initial feeling is that I'm against the three button set up. DOA2 retained the three button set up and that didn't work out too well.

    And this "G automation" thing would be very difficult to pull off indeed.

    ice-9
     
  12. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    My sentiments exactly.
    Even the 8-way walk on SC, which is alot more useful than the DOA2 version , fails to be of any use in actual combat, which is where the KS excel in.

    Yet, I think their biggest problem is trying to introduce the game to beginners.

    Heck, when the vf4 comes out, WE are ALL beginners.
    Sega is trying to target the audience that hasn't played Vf1 to 3. (I know tons of ppl who just would not give it a try)



    Main complaint of being too hard really baffles me.
    Maybe games nowadays are just getting too easy.


    <font color=red>SummErs' 'PSO '
     
  13. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    I also really hope they keep the E button. It allows for the separation of movement commands and action commands. I really don't want to go back to inputting F,F endlessly.

    Some may feel that inputting F+E then a command is confusing for beginners, but I think once you get the hang of the E button, it makes things so much easier, and much quicker.

    I feel that the practical evade was kept out of DOA2 to keep the gameplay focused on offensive and defensive yomi between the three kinds of attacks. Escape would have messed up the "janken" play; I also think that's why it has no command throw escapes. But VF is really different.

    spotlight
     
  14. vfighter

    vfighter Member

    Actually Namco has already copied VF as much as they can
    without being sued or being good. It's called Tekken!;)
     
  15. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Sorry
    I don't see anything remotely 'similar' regarding Vf n Tekken.

    Give Namco credit, they do know how to make 'fun games'
    Of course, this is viewed differently by everyone.

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'PSO '
     
  16. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Its not so similiar that it is really noticeable. They are just coinsedences in both of the series' devolpment that raise questions. The the really big and noticeable ones are things Namco borrows from the V.F. games such as V.F. gets command sidesteps Tekken gets command sidesteps, V.F. gets back throws and side throws Tekken gets back thows and side throws. Then there are the similiarities between Jacky and Law, Akira and Paul, Sarah and Nina. I dont see anything very similiar gameplay wise just character design and moves.

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     
  17. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    "fun" yes but I do think there are too many similarities for it to be considered coincidence that namco "happened" to adopt throw escapes,dodges,ground throws,k step,reversals,and a huge number of "new moves" from Tekken 3 and tag are obviously borrowed from VF Julia Chang getting a DLC,Paul getting an escaping body check in 3,King's GS being performed almost exactly like Wolf's not to mention recieving a new HCB throw and kick reversals right after wolf got em.

    To their credit though there is a lot to like about Tekken and they do play entirely differently even though they share many things in common.Oh I just remembered I was the one trying to teach you the virtues of Tekken a few weeks ago so I'll take this opportunity to shut up :)
     
  18. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    VF and Tekken.... Similar genre, but both are quite different imo (though pokes are strong in both).

    Anyways, I like VF's feel more than Tekken, but I still enjoy Tekken. We gotta keep in mind that Tekken did have its own unique set of features. For instance, throw-whiff animations were around since Tekken 1 if I recall. Whereas it wasn't in VF until 3. Before 3, we had INSTANT OPTION SELECT while doing throws. Tekken's throw-whiff animation did most to also show the difference between the throw systems in VF and Tekken.

    VF always had reversals, but I'm not sure if Tekken was the first to have something like an inashi. Weren't multiple throws in there since Tekken 2? Don't know about that one.

    The Tekken laggy feel takes me some time to get used to, unfortunately every time I play the game...

    Anyways.... I find the two games feeling very different and so I don't like saying that Tekken is a "ripoff" of VF. Certainly it was inspired by VF in many aspects. And certainly it always comes up right after VF. And that makes it easier for people to claim it's a ripoff of VF. But do you at all feel you are playing the same game when you play the two? I mean, given that argument, I think a better choice to call a ripoff of VF is the Soul Edge and Soul Calibur system. But even those have their dramatic differences.

    We could also say that GGX is a ripoff of Marvel Vs. Capcom without tag team (and some Samurai Showdown in there as well), but then for all it is similar there are tons of mechanics altered and added to the system to make it play completely different in a way.

    As the Mortal Kombat series were inspired by Street Fighter, Tekken series was inspired by Virtua Fighter. But at the same time, for the few basics they have in common, they feel quite different from each other entirely.

    -Chanchai

    P.S. Is it me or does Tekken *FEEL* like the execution frames are excessivly late?! I like the game and all, but I can't get over how often I whiff things or feel I have to provide much room for the "delay" that seems to occur between attacks and especialy dodging.
     
  19. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Tekken to me feels more like Mortal Kombat 3 with its button tap combo's which is in essence what Tekken boils down to trying to hit your ten hit combo's and the first one to do so wins. What Fun!!!!

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, I honestly think that at high level play, 10hit combos are nothing in Tekken. However, it seems prerequisite material to know at least where they connect.

    IMO, I feel the main difference of Tekken and VF is something that they both have in common... Both games require their own sets of precision (time and sequence of action) in a sense. However, both have a very different rhythm to that precision.

    Actually, from what I've been seeing, Tekken high level play boils down to successful pokes and openings to get some serious floats out. I don't think I ever see a 10-string combo. I also see some interesting maneuvering as well.

    Anyways, you might find http://www.tekkencentral.com/eng to be an interesting site if you want to see some DIVX clips of some Korean TTT play.

    -Chanchai

    P.S. To me, it feels like Tekken has a system where it's easier to maximize a successful poke or spotting an opening. However, when I think about it, you have stuff in VF such as a well-drunken Shun successfully nailing a chouwan (or even SE), a Wolf that opens you up for a Giant Swing, Kage with his TFT, Akira for... many things, Jacky overall, Sarah overall, etc... All of which can just about rip half your life (or more) away with the proper setup. Heck, Lion can do about 40% and even more if the victim isn't careful (not struggling, etc..)--that's a rough estimate, a MC TA-Kick goes quite a way for Lion/images/icons/smile.gif. It seems like the only character I can think of that doesn't have this sort of advantage is Aoi and perhaps even Pai (she has some of her combos at least, especiallyc ompared to Aoi). Need I even say ANYTHING about Lau?! /images/icons/tongue.gif A mistake against Lau typically goes by heavily punished! Anyways, just find it kinda funny that I always overlook these kind of things when comparing and contrasting VF with Tekken. I guess not being a decent Tekken player makes it easy for me to say/feel that I'm losing badly because of one capital advantage. When in fact such things exist in VF (except for Aoi it seems), though I have to admit... It feels like you have to work a lot harder to pull these off in VF, but that could very likely be my bias (and lack of Tekken skills).
     

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