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Stance dancing with Brad...

Discussion in 'Brad' started by Dullyanna, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Dullyanna

    Dullyanna Member

    Right, I'm a noob to the VF series, so forgive my ignorance in advance, please. This thread's purpose is about basic stance application with Brad, because we all know his only mixups that come directly from stances is with Sway Back, which can be stuffed fairly easily.

    As far as I can tell, Brad's stances mainly exist to put the opponent in a defensive position (Although if they hit in the meantime, that's all the better). His Ducking stance stuffs basic retaliation, while his Slip and Phase stances evade them and punish for more damage (I don't know the exact frames, though, so for all I know you can stuff everything with 2P). His swayback offers mixup potential with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif K+G, but it's relatively easy to stuff, especially if abused. As far as I can tell, his viable mixup options on hit for moves that can enter Duck are throws, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (I think it's his fastest low), guarding/step (If they successfully block), and of course Duck itself.

    Again, this is all noobish speculation (I just got this game a couple days ago, and I don't know jack shit about the frames, yet). Also, the forums seem rather dead, so I'm hoping a new topic would help breathe a little life into them.
     
  2. deathsushi

    deathsushi Well-Known Member

    Hey Dullyanna,

    I would actually say that the opposite is generally the case. Brad's stances are generally not the best at evading - although he's capable of ducking under some high attacks, you're generally going to see your opponents using a lot of 2P to break you out of your stances if you start to get predictable, and none of his stances have intrinsic properties that will allow you to evade these attacks.

    You are correct in that his ducking stance will sneak under some high attacks, but my own experience has been that this is more of a bonus, than a reason to enter the stance.

    I think a better way to think of Brad's stances is that they allow ways to apply pressure to your opponent. Shifting quickly into stances allows you to break out of the disadvantage that you may normally incur if your opponent has blocked something like his elbow (6P) or his knee-uppercut (6K). Additionally, Brad has many options once he's successfully entered into a stance, including throw mix-ups, his unblockable screw-cross (Long Ducking, P+K), his double knee which staggers and earns you a combo against an opponent hoping to duck the screw-cross (Long Ducking, KK), and so on.

    I'm not sure I understand the last question you mention - that his viable options on hit for moves that can enter duck. First off, throw out 2K - it's garbage for Brad, and you're always better off using 1K. In either case, neither of these is good to follow-up into Ducking stance afterwards, because you have a reasonably large disadvantage. Some good moves to enter into stances with Brad, in my opinion, are:

    PP - standard combo starter that can be followed through to completion with Brad's low kick (PPK for full combo string). The full combo string is annoying, and once your opponent fears that low kick, you have leeway to start abusing PP into one of his stances

    6P - Brad's fastest mid, and it staggers on a successful hit against a ducking opponent

    6K - Big combo potential if you get a counter-hit, and you can cancel quickly into a stance. If your opponent is getting careless, you can do 6K, SR P for a quick crumple. Follow-up a successful crumple with 66P+K,P,6,K and then a light pounce to drain away a massive amount of your opponent's life bar.

    4K - Great range, big wall stagger potential, and can be cancelled into stance. Most people accept the stance switch after this one (at least in my experience) so it's also worth just throwing it out there and then holding guard. If they try to counter-hit you entering into stance, they'll whiff and you can then punish.

    Does any of that make sense? Feel free to hit me up for games online if you want something more specific!
     
  3. Dullyanna

    Dullyanna Member

    lol, what I meant for my last statement was, what Brad's options are when he hits with something like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif . He can press 6 and enter duck, but then he has to commit to a move or go into Sway Back and possibly get hit. If he hits with something like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (I'm assuming he gets advantage if he hits with those moves, and doesn't enter Duck), then he can throw out a low without getting stuffed (I thought Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif 2K was quicker than his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif 1K, but it's not like I can easily tell). If Brad can reliably stuff retaliation with his Duck stance on certain guarded moves, then great. I just assumed 2P among other things could beat out his stance options on guard (Though doing that consistently is another story, lol).
     
  4. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze

    PSN:
    SeidonVFDC
    XBL:
    SeidonVFDC
    Use 4p+K to cancel out of sways and reset into another one.

    It's useful.
     
  5. deathsushi

    deathsushi Well-Known Member

    You're right - 2P can generally always beat out most of your stance options. One of the keys to playing Brad effectively is to make your opponent afraid to use 2P. You do this by not robotically going into stances every time. I think one of the posts here long before I came onto the scene mentioned specifically that part of using Brad well was watching your opponent to see how they reacted.

    If you're fighting a very reckless opponent, they will use 2P as often as possible, in order to attempt to get out of tricky situations. These people don't require stances to beat - they require you hitting them with "safe" combos like PPK that you know will hit, and will punish them for trying to attack when they're at a disadvantage. Counterpoint to this is the helltrap from Brad's ducking stance. If your opponent is consistently hitting 2P, you can use P+K from Brad's ducking stance to push aside the punch and follow up with the P uppercut. I generally find the timing on this too difficult for online play, so I stick with the combo mentioned.

    BTW - you don't have to commit to a move once you've entered stance. It's perfectly acceptable (and sometimes advantageous) to just hit guard and cancel out of the stance. If your opponent tries for a mid-attack or something else, you can then follow-up and punish.
     
  6. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Good mixup advice there deathsushi, although we can do more than "just hit guard"! As Tonyfamilia pointed out in the VF5R vids thread, Brad can also CD fuzzy after ducking/slipping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
     
  7. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    What up, Dullyana, welcome to vfdc. Some of your posts sounded like you haven't looked at Brad's frame data, so here it is
    http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?ver=5c&chara=brad

    It will help you to know what kind of advantage/disadvantage you're entering stances with.
    Here's the thing about Brad, it is possible to enter stances from certain moves with disadvantage and still avoid getting hit while successfully counterstriking.
    If you go into dojo mode and set the cpu to block and react with either P/2P or a mid, you will see that there's a way to enter stances and counter all of these.
    Only Hell Trap can stop 2P for sure but it is possible to Phase Turn out of the way of a 2P, it all depends on what move you're using to go into PT with.

    As you practice you will see that PT is a decent way to get out of the way of mids after going into any Slip with disadvantage. I don't recommend that you get used to always going into stances after moves that lead into stances or it will become a habit and you will get too predictable. Bad habits are hard to break in this game so if you see yourself always doing the same thing after a blocked attack, try to change this habit and force yourself to do something different or a good opponent will pick up on it and punish you.

    Ducking K is one of Brad's best moves from stances. It's -3 on block, +2 on regular hit, if it hits your opponent while he's crouching it will cause a stagger that leads to a free PK and if you hit on counter hit you can press P+G and go into Clinch. I've found that the best way to go into Clinch from this move is to tap P+G everytime after you do this move then you can visually confirm if it hit or not and whether you should defend or attack. And don't forget to hit PK if you see that you got a stagger. Try to use the same tactic for all moves that lead to Clinch, even 3K, except the crouch stagger is not as good on that move and it won't guarantee you a free PK.

    Here's a cool exercise for all you Brad players:
    Go to dojo and set the cpu to block and react with anything you like. Then do 4P, delay the followup K a little, P+G and bam! Clinch time /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

    Lastly, you don't want to "dance" with Brad the way that, for example, Lei Fei dances. The reason that Lei can get away with dancing in your face is because he has so many different sabakis out of most (all?) of his stances so people tend to freeze if they don't have a move that he can't sabaki (only character in the game who does not have a move that cannot be sabakid is Brad) but, for example, Wolf players will shoulder them up in the air for a nice chunk of damage.
    The same thing will happen to Brad if you dance around in front of a good opponent. Brad does not have sabakis like Lei, all he has is that chumpy 2P deflector and most opponents will use any one of their launchers to take half your life.
    Only time I'd recommend a little bit of dancing is against opponents who see you Sway, wait and then do standing P to stop any of your Sway options. For these guys you can do 2 Slips, one to psych them out and the second one to attack after their P goes over Brad's Sway. Long Ducking is good for this too.
     
  8. TheUgg

    TheUgg Well-Known Member

    Brad Burns was on dancing with the stars last night, forealz.
     
  9. Dullyanna

    Dullyanna Member

    Yay for frame data!

    On the matter of dodging 2Ps with PT, it seems to work more consistently if you do it to a certain direction based on which position the opponent is facing, i.e. PT to your left if Akira's left foot is toward you, and vice versa (Doesn't seem to work at all if you do it after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, lol) . Also, it seems that certain mids can beat out all of Brad's options if he enters stance (Akira can, at the very least). Entering stances all or most of the time is a terrible habit, especially if A: you can't hit check before entering, and B: There's one or more ways to defeat all your options from it (I play Soul Calibur, so I know what can happen if you're stupid with them).
     
  10. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    I personally don't go into Brad's stances much to avoid stuff. It isn't too hard for a good player to hit Brad out of his stances when they are used the wrong way. It was mentioned that you could avoid a high punch with Ducking and Slipping, but that is if they react with the fastest timing. It is very possible to hit Brad with a high punch when he tries to attack from a stance. In general, you should only go into Brad's stances when you have an advantage.

    Going into a stance after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is guarded is a big no no in particular. Beginner Brads like to do this a lot thinking that it's a safe string, which it is far from being. Personally, I hit check after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and do the following based on what happens: If my elbow is guarded, I will fuzzy guard by crouch dashing forwards. It is too difficult for me to quickly hit check, see that my elbow was guarded, press /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, and then fuzzy. I wait until the buffering period to enter stances is over and then proceed to fuzzy guard. You can mix things up with ETEG if your opponent has low throws, though they can delay a high throw as an option as well. If I get a counter hit, I'll use the canned /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. You could try going into Ducking after a normal or counter hit and pressure with a throw or Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/Slipping Right /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif if you want. According to Myke, there is less time to delay moves in VF5 than in VF4, but it sure feels like there is more time to delay /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in VF5. Learning to hit check after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif may seem intimidating at first, but it is very possible.

    Going into a stance after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is guarded is one of the worst things that you could do. I used to always enter /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif Ducking hoping that I'd get a counter hit. I was always too lazy to hit check after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif because I thought that it would be too hard. That's one of the reasons that I practically never use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif anymore. LOL. I'm not sure how much time you have to delay going into a stance after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in VF5, if there is any. If you can, that is one skill that you should definitely consider developing. If you go into Ducking after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is guarded, at least hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif afterwards. Just be aware of your opponent throwing you if they get used to seeing this.

    About stuffing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with Brad's sway options: If you have an opponent that habitually tries to stuff your attacks with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, consider yourself fortunate. While it is true that your opponent can stuff most of Brad's options from his stances if he uses them off of a guarded move, you still have some nice options to capitalize on this. If they use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after getting hit with a move that leads into a stance, it's a golden opportunity for you to deal damage to your opponent. If they use a low punch after guarding one of your attacks that leads into a stance, Brad still has things that he can do. For instance, if they like to use a low punch after guarding your elbow, delay going into Slipping Right and counter with Slipping Right /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. You can slip the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif if you delay this stance only, and you will hit them as they recover. From there, you can make a combo for some nice damage. It is also possible that you will avoid a high attack or a throw should they use them as well. If your opponent does nothing you can hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after entering Slipping Right, or you can throw the punch out and fuzzy guard with a forwards crouch dash if it's guarded. I'm not sure if this trick will work after moves that are guarded other than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. This is something to test. Anyway, this is a better option that trying to use his Hell Trap sabaki IMO. It is great if your opponent is a low punch spammer, but against a good opponent it can be a risky move to use because it leaves you defenseless if your opponent chooses not to interrupt.

    My advice on his Hell Trap sabaki is to use it as a standalone move. Don't use it after an attack that leads to a stance. If your opponent uses low punches a lot then go right ahead and use it anyway, but I wouldn't use it against a skilled opponent in this manner. Instead, observe your opponent and look to see when they tend to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. A common time for your opponent to throw out a low punch is after a move that leaves them at a small disadvantage. Brad's Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is -3 for example. If your opponent tends to low punch after this move is guarded, quickly enter Ducking and then enter the sabaki. The reason for why I recommend doing this is in this situation and not after a move that leads into a stance is for the following reasons: 1. At a disadvantage your opponent may also evade and 2. your opponent probably won't try to use an elbow. In theory, your opponent's options are constrained enough to make the sabaki a safer option in this case. If your opponent decides to evade (ETEG etc.) you'll have the recovery of their failed evade to stand back up. You will also not have thrown a move out that can be punished after being evaded, since the Hell Trap sabaki is not an attack. I've seen Myke use the sabaki after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif connects for the same reasons. There are more damaging alternatives to using a sabaki on your opponent's low punch, but they don't have the benefit of the safety the sabaki offers should the opponent evade.

    I also don't recommend going into Long Ducking or Phasing Turn to stuff /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif because you can get easily hit out of them. If you get a hit with a move that can lead into these stances, then I still recommend not using them since it is easier to apply pressure with Ducking/Slipping mids and a zero-frame throw. You'll likely end up dealing damage more consistently, too.

    It was mentioned that there is a mix-up between Sway Back /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and Sway Back /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Just keep in mind that the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is -13 on guard, though it may be uncounterable from max range. The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif has pretty good range and it may be uncounterable if guarded from max range too. I'll have to test and confirm sometime. A little tidbit: Most of Brad's attacks that lead into his stances don't allow you to enter Sway Back afterwards. The only moves that allow this are Long Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and Slipping Left/Slipping Right /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. I think that using Slipping Left/Slipping Right /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif Sway Back /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is kind of neat once in a blue moon. I really wish that Brad had a safe mid from Sway Back to mix-up with Sway Back /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif in this situation. I could have sworn that Adio mentioned that he had a move similar (identical?) to his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from Sway Back when VF5 was still in its testing phase. I guess Sega took it out. Darn.

    Here is a useful reference that you can use regarding what Brad can stuff after entering Ducking/Slipping from his various moves:

    http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/181167/fpart/1

    This list covers most of his moves that lead into stances. There are still some that need to be tested. Off hand, I can tell you that you cannot beat out an elbow with Slipping Left /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is guarded, but you can after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is guarded.

    @tonyfamilia: Brad's Phasing Turn /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is immune to sabakis. But yeah, you're not going to use this if you're being rushed down by Lei-Fei. It's hard to believe that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif isn't impervious as well. Are you sure about this?
     
  11. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    In short Having trouble with 2p? there nothing you can do about it because Brad 2p counter is fucking useless online lol! the counter frame time is to quick and often comes out before the 2p cause in you to get hit. you'll have to delay it ab it which instead makes it a guessing situation instead of a knowing.

    Online plays a big part in certain attacks landing.
     
  12. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    eh, you talking about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif from ducking? Move works fine for me, you have to take a guess whenabouts your opponent will try to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif you out of his stances.

    I find the sabaki works quite well if you go straight into ducking and use it after a blocked /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, blocked /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or similar move.
     
  13. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Read B.Feck.....Oh shit a B.Feck Quote Experience.

    Last i check VF5 was about knowing right.

    If it was useful and work properly Sega would've changed it into a Jumping elbow. Should've been a sabaki from fucking jump.
    Not mention why doe Eileen still have the Muay Thai superman punch and Brad does not?

    Just Finishing Learning Akira B.Feck and then bring his ass to Rank so i can De-Rank him lol!.
     
  14. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    errr. VF5 is about knowing?! Don't understand you man.

    Using any <s>Sabaki</s> Inashi is a guessing game, you can't know everything lol. Brads p+k from ducking is exactly like most other <s>sabaki's</s> Inashi, if your seeing your opponent 2p you when you go into his stances then it can be useful. Smacks in the air for a decent juggle and it's really not that difficult to use. Oh and there's no need to delay it in quite a lot of situations, like in the examples I posted earlier.

    No need to get all personal SDS, I was only posting ways the move can be useful. Wasn't aimed at your Brad Skillz ( or lack of ) at all, if you struggling to use a certain move don't need to take it out on me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
     
  15. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    From the glossary:

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inashi

    A move that results in a parry or deflection of a specific type of attack. An inashi will typically do little to no damage but will often leave the opponent open for an quick attack.</div></div>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sabaki

    An attack that will deflect an s attack at a certain level as it executes. Compare with Inashi.</div></div>

    (sic)

    Imho, as far as inashis go, low punch inashis are the worst and Brad's tops them all by being accessible only through a stance.
     
  16. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    K, so Inashi not Sabaki. Thanks for clearing that up Erdraug.

    I'm not saying it's the best or worst in the game, all i'm saying is that it does have it's uses and yah, it's only available from ducking that's why I earlier said it's useful if your opponent likes to 2p you when you go into stances.
     
  17. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Never Personal B.Feck You should know that or i wouldnt have put LOL! behind.
    Im not strugging because i've abandon the move altogether online.
    Lag plays a big part in the effectiveness move. I just wish it would've been a sabaki or something.

    As far as VF goes i was told that a long time ago about VF being a serious game of knowing (Expample:Knowing your opponent.).If this was'nt the case every move would end with 3 variations Mid, Low and high. But anyway the Move Like Erdraug said is the worst.
     
  18. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I don't necessarily agree with this. There's nothing particularly special about Brad's hell trap that makes it harder to land due to lag than any other inashi or sabaki. If it were a reactionary type move in that you use when you see the opponent /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, then I'd agree that lag would make this really impractical. But it's not. So, like a lot of inashi/sabaki moves, you use it when you anticipate, or guess, that the opponent will /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, which is usually after a particular setup.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the counter frame time is to quick and often comes out before the 2p cause in you to get hit. </div></div>
    If your hell trap is executing earlier than the opponent's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, then perhaps you could look at the situation(s) more closely to find out why? I've found that sometimes my opponent won't /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif at the fastest timing because they don't really know when it's their turn to attack Brad during a stance. If I sense my opponent not punishing Brad as they should during a stance, then I will abuse the stances more.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you'll have to delay it ab it which instead makes it a guessing situation instead of a knowing.</div></div>
    Can you ever claim to "know" that your opponent will do something? It's always a case of anticipation to me, and you usually anticipate (or guess) based on the current situation, and using past experience, conditioning and/or your gut feeling.

    Anyways, from personal experience, I've had lots of success with Brad's hell trap online with only 1-bar connections to Japan, and it doesn't get much laggier than that!
     
  19. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

     
  20. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    That was a mistake. PT/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is labeled as a MDK but it's not. It's either a punch or elbow class move so it is not immune to sabakis. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is a knee class move so it is not immune to sabakis either. Let's hope they fixed this in R.

    Friendly FYI, Ducking Hell Trap will not work if Brad does it at disadvantage. Even after PT/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which leaves you at -1 Brad will get low punched if he tries to "Inashi" the low punch. Unless your opponent has slow reaction time and you're sure that he will low punch. A good way to test them is if after a blocked PT/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (or Piercing Knee from SR) you low punch them before they low punch you, then you know what you're working with.

    Also, don't quit on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif It's awesome as a standalone move. It's slower than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and it doesn't give as much reward but it's safe in comparison. If you use it as a safe floater by tapping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after using it and hit-checking it just like elbow.
    CH: combo
    Guarded: ETEG
    Normal hit: You're at -2 so it depends on your opponent what you do with that, lol.
     

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