Stance Transitions and Cancels

I've seen two discussions on this recently, and decided to try a new method of investigation. Essentially, I used a video capture device to determine how long between certain events (I can explain in more details if people want). My findings were

Transition into Doku stance 9F
Transition into Hai stance 7F
Transition into Nehan stance 27F

Transition from Doku to Hai stance 5F
Transition from Hai to Doku stance 7F

Hai stance cancel 12F
Doku stance cancel 12F
Nehan stance cancel 24F
Koko stance cancel 14F

 

nice, thnks for the info.

 

(Sorry for slow reply, I've been in Injune, Augathella and Roma with no net).

The way I did it was to video capture the move from stance and then the transition plus the move from stance and subtract the difference to work out how much time the transition requires. I used a turbo stick to try to eliminate any lag coming from slow inputs.

I used the input display to set the time for the input being registered and the hit mark (mid/high etc.) as the marker for the hit connecting. I checked it first with two moves of known timing and the known frame data seemed to correlate with what I was seeing. I also repeated it several times to check that consistent results were coming out.

Finally, because I have a PAL PS3, I had to convert slightly (as my capture card is 25 or 30 fps, and the ps3 displays at 50fps, despite running internally at 60fps.) This hopefully didn't induce too many errors.

I believe one of the old VF4 guides from Japan had similar data, but I couldn't find it at the time. I will have a search now to see what it says.

 

Also, I did some quick testing on the Pstick. One interesting incidental finding which I'll come to.

I checked my stick and it is accurate up to at least 28 frames.

I confirmed that standing P hits on F 11, Doku P hits on F17 and Hai P hits on F10 (which agrees with the frame data).

Entering Doku stance then Doku P on F3 hits on F26
Entering Hai stance then Hai P on F3 hits on F15

Switching from Hai to Doku stance then Doku P hits on F24
Switching from Doku to Hai stance then Hai P hits on F15.

All of these findings are consistent with the initial findings, so I think I will leave it at that.

(The interesting finding was, you can actually press guard one frame later than the above listed numbers. It seems that if you pressed guard one frame early it will continue to register and let you guard, even if you release it on the next frame. It does not extend further than this.)

 

just from experience (no empirical data): i think the G cancels look a little off. It seems like u can block a jab with guard cancel from most stances. Of course, it may just be because opponents hesitate.

Anyhow, i'd at least point out, that if those G cancel frames are accurate, then this is a classic example of paper theory fighter playing dramatically different from the vf5 u actually play on ur tv.

That being said, Thanks Noodalls. Every lil bit of knowledge is valuable and can help our games.

 

P1 In Doku Stance. P2 Akira.
on F1 by P1 to cancel stance.

P2 Akira has to press on F4 or later for P1 lei to be able to block it (pressing on F15.)

 

Addit test.

Akira on F1 (blockable F11).
Lei [up]+++ on F1 or F2 will reverse. F3-12 will float Lei.

There is something odd going on in VF. Akira's can be blocked by the other player pressing on F11 or F12. 1F slop factor in guarding? Not sure. (explains why pressing [up]+++ on F12 still gets Lei floated.

 

something i been wondering akira does 43p+g then follow up attack with 3k on lei fei i dunno if it is lag or hitbox or magic but bt to hai shiki sometimes avoids 3k can u confirm this?

 

I dont think the sidekick after RBC is guaranteed. Therefore the issue is kind of unimportant.

 

so i was messing around with leifei in dojo entering ura nehan stance and inputting p as fast as possible against cpu pai and cpu sarah guarding and attacking mid(9k+g 14f and 6p elbow). 33p is -5 on guard so i was wondering why my p beats out pai 9k+g. and sarah's 6p. In another scenario i used 6p+kp+k+g then p but loses to both.6p+k alone on grd is -5 also.Is the disdvantage reduced entering stance by 1 or 2 frames with 33pp+k+g and with 6p+k disadvantage frames are added. Visually it takes longer to attack out of 6p+kp+k+g due to the stance transition anyways but by how much?