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Starting out with Sarah

Discussion in 'Sarah' started by Modelah, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Modelah

    Modelah Well-Known Member VFDC Translator Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Modelah
    Note: This was written by YOU and translated by Modelah. The section 'Versus Taka' was written by Nidaime Kyobashi and translated by Modelah. It appears under YOU's post (entry No. 41).

    YOU's VF5FS Beginner's Blog Post

    Hey, everyone. I'm YOU (pronounced 'YOr'- Modelah), a Sarah player from Osaka, Japan. You can usually find me at the Monte50 arcade in Umeda, Osaka. I don't have a PS3 at the moment so unfortunately I'm unable to play online. I've tried to make this guide easy to understand for newcomers to the game, but still there might be some unfamiliar terminology to deal with. On to the guide!

    Sarah's Characteristics, Strengths and Weaknesses
    Sarah has a great all-round movelist, and can be played as basically as you like. However, if you just stick to her basic moves you'll find she's quite a weak character. Her most standout characteristic is her Flamingo stance, and making full use of it turns Sarah into a true attacking machine.

    Without a doubt, her ability to inflict damage after scoring a knockdown is amongst the best in the game. I'll mark Flamingo Stance in this guide with (F).

    On the downside Sarah lacks decent defensive moves, so her defensive game really boils down to the player's skill and knowledge of the game's other characters. She's also light, so the damage she takes can be potentially high.

    Basic Skills
    First, try out the following attacks. Moves with * require careful timing to execute. The moves I've listed here are the most important so hit the dojo to get accustomed to them.

    1. Linear Attacks- Moves that can be evaded to either side:
    [P]- A punch. A basic move all characters share. Speedy and useful in many situations.

    [P][4][K]- A follow up to the above, the [4][K] hits mid.

    [2][P]- A low punch. A basic move all characters share. Speedy and useful in many situations.

    [6][P][K]- An elbow attack. Hit check [6][P] and follow up with [K] to knockdown on hit. Go to this move first when you have the advantage. When practicing, train yourself to hit [K] after [6][P] gives a yellow flash (counterhit) effect. Don't just use the follow-up [K] automatically every time.

    [2][P][+][K][K]- A hit-checkable kick, the follow-up launches for a combo. As above, practice your hit checking!

    [4][K]- A kick attack that transitions to Flamingo. This gives you advantage on block, so as long as the move touches the opponent you'll be able to continue pressuring the opponent. Also, hitting o this on a crouching oppponent will cause a stagger, mostly guaranteeing F[3][K] afterwards.

    [4][K][+][G]- A heel drop that you can combo off. You can cancel this move into Flamingo with [4][K][+][G][G].

    2. Half-circular attacks- Moves that can be evaded only to one side:
    [4][P][K][K][K][+][G] (evade to Sarah's stomach)- A high half-circular punch string. [4][P][K] starts the string with a back-knuckle and kick, the next part requires timing; as soon as the second [K] connects hit [K] again. On a major counter all attacks in the string will hit, giving you a knockdown.

    [8][K][+][G] (evade to Sarah's back)- A half-circular jumping kick. It executes almost immediately, allowing you to crush low attacks most of the time. Launches on counter hit giving you a combo opportunity.


    3. Full-circular attacks- Moves that cannot be evaded:
    [K][+][G][K]- The first attack is a full-circular high kick. The second [K] is linear, and transitions to Flamingo.

    [3][K][+][G]- A full-circular low kick. Knocks down on hit.

    Throws:
    [P][+][G]- A throw that the opponent can tech-recover from. Try to read your opponent to guess what they'll do next, if the opponent doesn't tech a down attack [3][K] is guaranteed. If the opponent tech-recovers go for a meaty attack or look to keep the pressure on.

    [6][4][P][+][G]- The best [4]-direction throw.

    [4][1][2][3][6][P][+][G]- The best [6]- direction throw. When the opponent's back is to a wall, [3][K] is a guaranteed follow-up. Hold [3] during the throw animation and hit [K] after it finishes so you don't do a down attack instead.

    [4][6][P][+][G]- If you're not confident with input command for the above throw, use this.

    Moves from Flamingo (F):
    F
    [P][K]- The first of two strings from a high punch, the second attack hits mid.

    F[6][K][K]- A fast mid knee. The following [K] is a mid full-circular.

    F[3][K]- A mid kick. Gives a stomach crumple on hit, affording you a combo opportunity. Extremely useful.

    F[K][+][G][K]- A full-circular high kick. The follow-up is linear. After the hit go for a midair combo.

    F[3][K][+][G]:[P][+][G]- A slowish mid heel smash. As long as the kick touches the opponent you can go for the throw. Great for getting damage on opponents even if they block the first attack.

    F[P][2][K][K][K]- The second of two strings from a high punch, the second attack hits low. If F[P] hits as a minor counter or greater the [2][K] will hit also. As [2][K] hits, enter [K][K]. Even if F[P] misses, when [2][K] connects the rest of the string will too, and launch for a combo.

    F[2][K]:[P][+][G]- A low kick. When the initial kick hits enter [P][+][G] for a hit-throw. Try to enter the throw command just as the kick connects.

    Basic Strategy
    When at advantage:
    When you have the advantage, try to put your opponent in nitaku between mid strikes and a throw. For starters, try this with [6][P] and a throw. If [6][P] hits, follow up with [K] for a knockdown, and continue appying the pressure. When the opponent starts guarding your [6][P], attempt a throw. In turn, most often the opponent will try to abare to beat out the throw attempt so switch back to [6][P], which in most cases will connect. If your [6][P] is guarded, you'll find yourself at disadvantage.

    Also, using [4][K] at advantage (a move that gives advantage on block) opens more possibilities for Sarah players. If [4][K] contacts the opponent you'll still have the advantage so try one of the moves from Flamingo listed above. To begin with, just using F[6][K] (mid) or F[2][K] (low) to force a nitaku guess is fine. If the opponent starts to abare with a fast attack mixing F[P][K] (mid) and F[2][K] (low) should take care of them. Also, if you notice the opponent starting to guard more switch to F[3][K](mid) or F[2][K] (low).

    When at disadvantage:
    Sarah basically doesn't have any any special moves suited for defensive play. Guarding, reverse nitaku and evading are pretty much your only options. For starters, stick with the basics and try to read your opponent. If you think they'll throw you, abare. If you think they'll attack you with strikes, guard. For reverse nitaku I recommend [2][P][+][K][K] and [2][P]. Look to hitconfirm [2][P][+][K], launch and go for a combo. If [2][P] hits you'll now be at advantage, so look again to the section above.

    So, some of you may be asking, how do I get advantage in the first place? An easy way is to hit the opponent with [P]. Get close, and throw out a [P]. Generally you'll also be at advantage after guarding your opponent's attacks (though there are many exceptions to the rule).

    After [6][P][K] connects:
    Here's where Sarah really shines. As I mentioned before, [6][P][K] knocks down. After hitting [6][P][K] there are two follow-up options I recommend but you'll have to move quickly; if you wait to see what the opponent does next, you'll miss the opportunity. Again, try to get a read on your opponent.

    1. If you think the opponent will tech-recover, pressure them with ukemizeme. Enter Flamingo with [4][K][+][G][G], then try to force a nitaku guess between F[3][K] and F[2][K]. If the opponent doesn't tech-recover, cancel out of Flamingo with [G] and go on to the next phase of the game.

    2. If you think the opponent won't tech-recover you can go for an OTG (off-the-ground) combo. If the opponent DOES tech-recover, look to the section above that deals with being at disadvantage (in the case of [4][K], cancel out of Flamingo with [G] first).
    OTG Combos:
    [3][K][K](hold [3] early and then enter [K][K])- against Jeffry and Wolf
    [9][K][+][G][K]- against Kage and Shun
    [4][K]F, [P][K]- against everybody else
    Bear in mind, [6][P][K] won't knock Taka down (you'll actually be at disadvantage on hit). Playing against Taka requires a different approach, like totally different, so I'm sorry but I won't be dealing with him just yet.​
    Remember, this guide is just to get you started, what I've written here really isn't enough to prepare you for matches against advanced players. However if you're able to do what I've written, you should find that most players at the same level as you won't be able to withstand Sarah's offense.

    Versus Taka -written by Nidaime Kyobashi
    First, against Taka there are 2 things you'll need to be wary of;
    [6][P][K], as YOU mentioned, doesn't knock down on hit. In fact, you'll be at disadvantage.
    [2][P][+][K][K] doesn't knock down either, and doesn't lead to combo opportunities.​
    There are other moves that won't knock down Taka, but these two are significant as the properties for their follow-up attacks are now different.

    On the upside, the good news for Sarah is that;
    [P][P][P][7][K] becomes a natural combo on mC or greater.
    [9][K][+][G][K] also becomes a natural combo on mC or greater.​
    A minor counter hit (mC) is when your attack hits the opponent during the recovery stage of their own attack, when they are unable to guard. An example is when your [P] hits after your opponent's attack misses, or after you guard against an attack that has a long recovery time. 'mC or greater' just means it will work on normal counter hits, too.

    Basically, whenever your [P] hits as an mC or greater, go for the somersault combo. Note how your opponent attacks, and look for chances to get a [P] counter hit. Once you're used to counter-hitting [P], train yourself to finish the string with [7][K].

    Another move is [9][K][+][G][K], and though it's kind of slow it crushes lows. In addition, and against Taka only, [P][P][P][7][K] will connect. [9][K][+][G][K], [P][P][P][7][K] will deal around 40% damage, so you should use this whenever you think they'll try [2][P] or a throw. Taka can tech-roll to avoid the somersault though, [3][K][K] is a much safer follow-up, and still deals a decent amount of damage so it should definitely be a part of your game.

    The main thing with Taka is to stick with the [P], [6][P] and throw basics, and when you guard or evade a big move counter-attack with [P][P][P][7][K]. If you think they'll go for a throw or low attack, look to hit [9][K][+][G][K].

    Don't use the follow-up kick after [6][P]. Try to put them into nitaku with a throw or [1][K], for which you can use the following combo:
    [1][K], [4][K][+][G], [6][K][P], [7][K]- It will work on Taka regardless of foot position.​

    That might be a little above beginner-level. Anyway, I think Sarah isn't as disadvantaged against Taka as some may think.

    *That's a good start when dealing with Taka, Nidaime Kyobashi. As for other moves you can use, try [6][K][K] instead of [6][P] sometimes. [8][K][+][G] is pretty useful too.
    *comment added by YOU- Modelah

    Combos
    When it comes to combos, things can get a little complicated. I can't list every single one here so I'm only going to post the very basic ones (I don't really use such basic combos so there might be some here that require specific foot stances and so on. If some of these don't work first time... Sorry!).

    [2][P][+][K][K] or F[K][+][G][K]
    [1][K][+][G][K], F[P][K]- against Jeffry, Wolf and Akira
    [1][K][+][G][K], F[6][K][K]- against all other characters except Taka
    4F advantage against Taka but no combo opportunities
    [4][K][+][G]
    [1][K][+][G][K], F[P][K]- against Jeffry, Wolf and Akira
    [1][K][+][G][K], F[6][K][K]- against all other characters except Taka
    [3][K][K]- against Taka​

    F[3][K]
    [1][K][+][G][K], F[6][K][K]- against all characters except Taka
    [4][P][+][K], F[8][K]- against Taka​

    F[2][K][K][K]
    F[1][K][K], F[P][K]- against Jeffry, Wolf and Akira
    F[1][K][K], F[6][K][K]- against all other characters except Taka
    4F advantage against Taka but no combo opportunities
    From the author
    This is a game with particularly solid gameplay mechanics. It's definitely a good idea to look beyond what's written here in this blog for information on how to play Sarah.

    As I mentioned earlier, Sarah is very much an offense-oriented character. The quickest way to getting good is to try to copy how advanced players play. You'll be able to find lots of material online so you should just go ahead and 'steal' as much as you can! The better you can mount an effective offense, the easier it'll be for you to get those wins. :)

    But, there will come a time when you will 'plateau'; so here are some tips that'll help you get your game back on track:
    1. Practice your defensive skills.
    Looking after that health bar is important too, right? I'm sure someone's going to write something like that here on this blog.
    2. Think about how you're losing health points.
    Is your health bar draining the same way, after the same certain actions or situations?
    3. Outwit your opponent.
    It's nice when opponents play into straight into your hands, right? Think back to point 2 here. There is always a way to turn the tables.
    4. Create your own set plays.
    Using someone else's is fine, but creating your own style and flow is important.
    5. Try using moves you don't usually use.
    There are bound to be other moves that will prove useful. In the end, you'll have more variety in your offense, won't you? And as Sarah, you LOVE offense, right?
    6. Don't just copy the techniques advanced players use. Think about why they're using them in the first place.
    You'll become stronger by deepening your understanding of how and why things work.
    7. Make VF friends.
    Write down 'Tough Opponent' and read it as 'Friend'. This point is probably the most important, and most of all, makes VF fun.​

    Well to be honest, I feel like I've only gotten started with this post. Even so, it's still kind of long, and though I'm worried I'm not making certain points clear I think I'll finish it here for now. I apologise if what I've written has been hard to follow. Anyway, best wishes to you on your VF adventures! (^-^)/ And, when you've got the hang of things, please make your way to the arcade and play me sometime!

    Still not convinced? If any of the following sounds like you, Sarah is the right character!

    "I'm not interested in a brutishly strong character!!"
    "I want to use a character with a strong offensive game!!"
    "I want to blow away opponents purely by my own skills!!"
    "I wanna be able to do stuff on one leg!!"
    "A hot blond woman, YESSSSSS!!"
    "I will NEVER leave you, my sister!!" (She's Jacky's sister)
    "Sub character, secondary sub character or whatever, I'm picking a girl!!"
    "Yukata style YEEEAAAAAHH!!!"
    "Mini-skirt/China dress style YAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
    "Yeah, those legs are mmm mmm mmm♪"
    "YESSSS I glimpsed her panties!!"

    ...sorry about that, lol.

    You said 'Yes, that's me' to most of those, right? You have to give Sarah a shot, then. If it doesn't work out, there are always other characters to choose from. Go on now, don't be shy and pick Sarah!

    YOU

    Additional posts- These can be found after the main post (edited)

    No. 20
    Great post, but how do you use Forward Slide? Is it used in combos because of it's forward movement?
    -Nanashi
    No. 22
    Nanashi, this was one of the things I wanted to cover in my original post. Against light characters Forward Slide does have it's uses in combos following a [K][P] launcher. An example is:
    [K][P][6], Forward Slide [P][P], [4][K][+][G], [6][6][K][+][G].​
    Another example for oki after a knockdown:
    1. [6][P][+][K][+][G], [2][K] and
    2. [6][P][+][K][+][G], [2][K][K] (hit or guard) [P][+][G]
    Use this to pursue nitaku opportunities. Forward Slide isn't really strong enough to warrant making it a 'main move' in Sarah's arsenal, but it should be used from time to time to accent her offense.
    -YOU​

    No. 28
    How about using the Step? At the moment, from Flamingo I use F[K][K][2][K] mixed with the Step [P][+][G] catch throw.
    -Sarari
    No. 30
    Sarari, (sorry to butt in here YOU,) Step (F[P][+][K][+][G]) can really only be used against opponents who try to abare against Flamingo. Step first comes into play when you notice your opponent guarding and evading against Flamingo. Step's strengths lie in applying nitaku with the following:
    Step [P][P]- a mid that launches.
    Step [4][1][2][3][6][P][+][G]- catch throw (inescapable and defeats attacks in their startup animations).​
    Both do decent damage, and hitting the throw near a half-fence can ring the opponent out. Though not a main offensive strategy, you can set this up when you've got them up against a half-fence by hitting [3][P][K] or [6][P][4][K] and going into Flamingo, and then transitioning into Step. Good to use from time to time.
    -Nidaime Kyobashi​

    No. 61
    Hi, I find a lot of my matches end in [2][P] vs [6][P] shootouts. What should I be doing after my [2][P] hits and then my [6][P] gets guarded?
    -Nanashi Sara
    No. 62
    Nanashi, after Sarah's [6][P] you can use 'fuzzy guard'. There is a tutorial in he training mode that deals with this. It's the one that instructs you to input [3][3][5][G] after being hit with [P][K] to avoid the opponent's mid and throw attempts. Find it and practice that first.

    That [3][3][5][G] input is known as 'fuzzy guard'. It's used to avoid throws and fast mids at the same time, and you can do it after Sarah's [6][P].

    Try it, the [3][3] ducks under throws and the [G] guards against mids. Online, latency can be a problem so I recommend practicing offline.
    -Shironuko​

    No. 63
    Your options after a [6][P] elbow are:
    1. Fuzzy guard
    -to defeat nitaku attempts
    -when you think the opponent won't attack and you want to get in close​

    2. Use the follow-up [K]
    -useful against counter attacks.
    -knee-class launcher punishable on guard.
    -large disadvantage on crouching guard.
    -combo opportunity on counter hit.​

    3. Use the follow-up [P]
    -it's high.
    -gives plus frames on counter hit.
    -it can interrupt crouch attacks.
    -crouching guard will cause it to whiff.
    -gives small disadvantage on guard.​
    4. Backdash attacks like [4][K] and [2][P][+][K][K]
    -causes short range attacks to whiff.
    -causes some characters side kicks to whiff, others will connect and hurt you badly.
    -not as high risk as the follow-up [K], and can beat [2][P].​

    5. Throw
    -against high guard.
    -against opponents who like to guard the follow-up [K] and counter attack.
    -as you're attempting to throw at disadvantage, you'll be beaten by your opponent's attacks and throws.​

    The moves you should use depend on how your opponent reacts. Consciously trying to lessen risks through the use of fuzzy is the correct choice. Going for throws when you know they'll guard is the correct choice. Using [1][K] when they try to throw you is the correct choice. Try the different options for yourself, watch others play and take note of what they do and when they do it.
    -Nidaime Kyobashi​

    No. 86
    Recently I've been taking a lot of damage when the round starts. What are good/relatively safe moves to use as the round opens? I've been using [6][6][K], [4][4][K][K] and crouching guard but get squashed a lot.
    -Nanashi Sara​

    No. 88
    I also don't move well when the round starts so it's not a good part of my game but I think [4][4][K][K]'s speed and reach is good in this situation. You could also try [8][K][+][G] or just backdash. It depends on your opponent so I can't say, but if you want to avoid any opening surprises backdash into a standing guard.
    -Nidaime Kyobashi​

    No. 137
    I'm having trouble with with the Edge Kick Combo Triple (F[P][2][K][K](hit)[K]). I read somewhere about delaying an input when practicing, and I've been able to do it in training mode, but online I just can't get it to work. Any advice? Also, after getting the opponent to guard I distance myself to avoid getting hit by [P], what are some good moves to do at distance?
    -Nanashi Sara​

    No. 139
    What are Sarah's upper class launchers?
    -Anonymous
    No. 174
    Upper class... if you mean a 16f move then I guess that would be the Serpent Smash Kick [2][P][+][K][K]. On counter hit only there's also [K][P] and [3][P][+][K]. I think the closest thing to an upper class launcher is [3][P][+][K].

    While I'm here, a quick word on [6][P][K]. Even if [6][P] is guarded you can pressure your opponent. Get a read on your opponent and:
    1. if they guard standing or try to evade, go for a throw.
    2. if they try to abare, use the follow-up [K] to knock them down.
    3. if they crouch guard, don't use the follow-up [K] (it's a special mid) and use a different mid instead. I recommend [2][P][+][K][K] and a combo. For people who think they'll be safe by crouching after they guard Sarah's [6][P] use this to give them a rude awakening. Get ready to input [2][P][+][K][K] as fast as you can on the premise they will guard your [6][P], if you're not confident you can do it hit another [6][P] or try [3][P][+][K]. This tactic is great to use once the opponent has been conditioned to react to [6][P][K] and [6][P]~[P][+][G].
    4. fuzzy guard. The opponent might dare to fuzzy also. This situation could prove tricky. Well, you could try to knock them down with [3][K][+][G] or interrupt them with [1][K][+][G] and apply pressure, I guess.
    -Furafura Sara​
    No. 185
    Nanashi Sara, if you're trying to stay safe when the round opens I recommend a backdash or a back jump. It depends on the character you're playing against, and unless they guess that's the first thing you'll do you won't get hurt. If you do it too often the opponent will get wise and hit you with something, so fuzzying is a good option in that situation. Conversely, you could attack as soon as the round opens. I like to use [4][K][+][G] for that purpose.

    As for the Edge Kick Combo Triple, and other strings of the same nature for that matter, it can be hard to pull off in the heat of the moment online. Keep practicing offline until it becomes second nature. I don't actually play online at all so no guarantees there, lol.

    And now about distance after your opponent guards your moves. I think the best thing to do is backdash. After that, see how your opponent responds and react accordingly.
    -YOU​
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
    PurpGuy, Sozos, mfwebdude and 15 others like this.
  2. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

    PSN:
    oBLACKSTARo
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    BLACKSTAR84i
    YES, its finally time! \o/
     
  3. ToyDingo

    ToyDingo Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    BrodiMAN
    'Bout freakin' time...thanks Modelah...
     
  4. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    oBLACKSTARo
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    looks good to me so far
     
  5. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    Modelah, thank you very much for your work!
    Please, bring more translations! :)
     
  6. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

    PSN:
    oBLACKSTARo
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    BLACKSTAR84i
    Translation looks legit. I gotta say, I don't agree with everything YOU mentions, but I guess I need to become a STAR player first (or win SEGA Cup or something) for my opinion to matter
     
  7. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
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    freedfrmtheReal
    Out of curiosity, what didn't you agree with? Since at a glance that info seems about as basic as can be.
     
  8. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T!

    PSN:
    CozzyHendrixx
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    Stn Cozby
    I agree with what YOU has written. This was written for beginners.

    From midscreen, [4][6][P][+][G] is the better forward throw because of the hard knockdown despite sacraficing only 5 dmg. It gives her better oki, whereas [4][2][6][P][+][G] gives next to none.

    It's the same reason why i prefer Jacky's [6][6][P][+][G] from midscreen.

    Also the translation says [8][K][+][G] executes fast, but I think it's supposed to say that it crushes lows fast.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
    Chanchai likes this.
  9. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    oBLACKSTARo
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    There is no real oki advantage with 46P+G IMO compared to 41236P+G. You cant get soccerball kick off that at all, and anything for oki you can use off of either throw. From my view, its 5 dmg sacrificed for no real gain.

    @Manjimaru One thing I dont agree with is his focus on 6PK. Hit check or no, there's no huge gain for landing a 6PK on NH -- something like 30 damage (I'm not near the game right now if I'm wrong) and an optional tech where you might not get any extra damage. And on top of that, you risk getting up to half life taken away from you if you mess up the timing (which is something that beginners definitely will do). He makes it seem like some normal string to use all the time, despite the gigantic -18 on block and low damage witbout guaranteed payoff. The risk/reward (nor the damage for that matter)does not justify the use of this move for beginners at all; and if beginners take this advice and start relying on 6PK for damage, they are going to develop bad habits that will unnecessarily cost them matches.

    On top of that 6pk on NORMAL HIT is not even the real advantage of the string; its if you hit the knee on COUNTER HIT for a guaranteed combo AND the same oki they get on the NH version. That makes it even more of a reason why beginners should stay away from that string.

    The real strength of 6P is NOT in any of its strings at all; rather its in the +6/+7 from hitting crouching/abare opponents and forcing a nitaku guess. Not only is it safer and less YOLO, but the damage is higher too (plus it actually promotes good fundamentals). IIRC, if you hit someone with a 6P and then the opponent guesses wrong and eats a 41236P+G throw that's like 80 or 90 damage, plus oki.
     
  10. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

    PSN:
    oBLACKSTARo
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    BLACKSTAR84i
    Also, i believe the best back throw for Sarah is 4P+G. Off that throw you sacrifice like 5 damage IIRC, but you actually get a real chance for oki off an optional tech, unlike 64p+G. It's a more damaging neutral throw and you also can get it from it too
     
  11. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T!

    PSN:
    CozzyHendrixx
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    Stn Cozby
    The problem with [4][P][+][G] and [4][2][6][P][+][G] from midscreen is there's absolutely no reason for the opponent not to techroll from them. Sarah doesn't have any way to apply feasible pressure that would convince the opponent to stay on the ground post-throw.

    [4][6][P][+][G] and [6][4][P][+][G] on the other hand force the opponent to make a limited decision on HOW to get up. Sarah can punish any choice the opponent makes to get up. I'll even go as far to say that she's better at this than alot of her castmates.

    I understand what you are saying about [6][P][K], but at the same time i think its the best [6][P][K] when used appropriately, even without the knee counterhit. The knockdown is way too valuable to Sarah to be overlooked. Sarah plays should learn to confirm the elbow, like any other character with 6p knockdown followups.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
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  12. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    ok, just went into training room, and i gotta say that after looking through the throw differences, i agree with you on the throws now.

    I thought you could get true oki off of 4P+G and 41236P+G, but you can't. The problem is not opponents techrolling (thats a good thing IMO), but the fact that she kicks them too far away after the throws end. You have to forward dash to reach them, which takes too long to be able to use attacks as true meaties.

    As far as 6PK though, I still dunno how I feel about that, but meh. :p I feel there's plenty of other ways she can get the same result.
     
  13. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

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    I kind of agree with Blackstar since placing emphasis on 6PK too much, encourages beginners to use that move too much (usually failing hitcheck) which can lead to Sarah eating big damage off -18 (second hit blocked). I agree that its not really worth the risk most of the time and possible guessing game implications are really minor. I have to point out that I don't personally use 6PK basically at all when Im playing Sarah.

    Personally I would place much bigger emphasis on hitchecking serpent cannon (2P+KK) which is a.) less punishable on block b.) gives much better damage when it succeeds. And if Im not mistaken is also easier to hitcheck.
     
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  14. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T!

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    Hmm. From my experience, serpent cannon confirm window is smaller than 6pk. Sarah's 6pk is certainly one of the easier 6p confirms in the game. Chun Lis low mk into sa2 is harder lol.

    From 6pk, 9k+gk is so potent that it forces opponents to have to tech roll and block, because it will otg. It doubles as a meaty too, meaning there's literally no way for most characters to stop it.

    Since Sarah's 6pk can effectively force opponents to tech roll > block, she can go for almost anything she wants off of 6pk knockdown.
     
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  15. Lucky_GT

    Lucky_GT Well-Known Member

    It's fine to disagree with how top players play as long as it's coming from a place efficiency (doing things better!). I disagree with the strategy of strong Jean players all the time. It's what makes my Jean slightly different from the others. I've been playing Sarah lately and have already found ways (I believe) to do things better!
     
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  16. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    FL 6K and FL 2K is not a nitaku guess (evade beats both options). I guess I'd say its just a plain ol' high/low mixup. In FS, it is impossible to create a true nitaku in Flamingo stance (since she has no throw, or equivalent, in that stance)
     
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  17. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    I don't see what's wrong with the emphasis on 6PK. Saying that it's -18 on block is a bit irrelevant imo as you are not supposed to have the second hit blocked a lot anyway.

    It's fast will give around 45 damage on CH and VERY good oki, one of the scariest.
    2P+K is more damaging but it's slower (harder to interrupt poking) and the most important it's not safe on evade.
    At +6 if you go for it and opponent evades you are at -20, you still have the possibility of delaying second hit but you'll be at -15.
    In the same situation you are at -7 with 6P and you can 6PP to hit someone retaliating too fast after their evade and still be safe on block if they decide to wait.

    I don't really agree to say that 6P shines for it's +6/7 as it's the same with almost all ebows. On the other hand some don't have the K followup. K part is basically free guaranteed damage and knockdown with scary oki. If you take Lion for example he cannot hit check his 6PP, and would easily sacrifice the dog he just saved from the car accident to be able to do so :p
    6P counter into throw may seem attractive, but if jacky 6K into this you'll lose half life where you could have taken 20 guaranteed damage + oki.That's a different way to see it ^^.

    4K seems a better move than serpent imo, the frames on this moves are REALLY good.
    It has LESS total frames than 6P, gives + on guard, has 4 active frames to make it even more advantageaous from range, and is good on crouchers. I don't know about the time it takes to go back to guard from FL but I guess if you get evaded you can still use the backflip to get out of trouble.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
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  18. Lucky_GT

    Lucky_GT Well-Known Member

    @BLACKSTAR - At any time when the opponent techrolls if you have enough time to meaty FL 3K or FL 2K it is one of the most efficient meaty mixups in FS. Which is easiest to do post safe 6PK hitconfirm. So...it's nitaku! I believe the next untranslated part talks about this.

    @Chibitox - I agree for the most part. I don't think 2P+K is very confirmable outside of spacing situations where you can see a whiff and finish the string. So generally I feel it's best used after backdashes which means you likely wont get evaded when you use it.

    and yeah, 4K is really good, even if evaded. She can still do Backflip, 2K+G(high crush), 4K(low crush), 2P+K(low crush), P chain(fast startup) to force a guess.

    EDIT : If you can force them to evade it late enough, you can even have advantage on evaded 4K.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
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  19. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    I guess it comes down to preference when talking about 6PK. I think focusing on that move it potentially promotes bad fundamentals (particularly for the new beginners that this is aimed toward).

    @Cozby mentioned using 9K+GK after 6PK. Thats a good setup, no doubt, but if opponent tech rolls and blocks, you are now at disadvantage. That's still not a terrible situation, except for the fact that you just traded potentially 60+ damage instead for putting yourself back in a situation where you will have to defend, fuzzy or no. Sarah wants to stay away from disadvantage, something YOU pretty much mentions as well. The problem with 6PK, normal or first hit CH, is that you MUST guess your opponents okizeme correctly for any payoff, or else you will deal laughable damage and you completely lose momentum (unlike a nitaku guess), which leads to being forced to defend again (the last thing Sarah wants). In a high damage, unforgiving game like FS, that could hurt Sarah as a lightweight. If you're playing against someone like Wolf with a strong Nitaku game with alot of damage, you will sorely miss all of that potential damage that you could have gained otherwise. She has several other ways to get oki, so its not like 6PK is special for that.

    +6/+7 for 6P may not be unique to Sarah, but that doesn't make it any less good. That alone makes it better than all of Sarah's strings IMO -- That frame advantage leads to a nitaku situation, of course. The higher level of VF you play, the more that the majority of your damage will come directly from forcing a nitaku guess from your opponent. The threat of a Jacky 6K is always present in any nitaku situation, but so is the threat of Jacky eating a juicy CH extra damage because he used 6K. That's why seeing people get launched out of their own nitaku is more of an exception than a common sighting, espescially in high-level Japanese play. Situations like that hat does not make nitaku any less of an important fundamental requirement, not just for Sarah but also every single VF game. That is much more valueable than a small 30-40 damage, which leads to oki that requires more foresight and (generally) offers less payoff if you are wrong; not to mention the fact that it does pretty much the same damage as a correct nitaku guess even if you are right.

    4K is also not better than serpent at all. They are used for different purposes in similar situations. 2P+KK is not more difficult to interrupt poking with, because you're supposed to be using it as your mid option in a nitaku situation. The fact that its a 16 frame mid that is confirmable (Its difficult, but possible; thus somewhat covering against evaders, a huge plus over other launchers), launches opponents crouching and standing for the same damage makes it one of the best moves in the game for that purpose, period. Even if you fail at confirming, and end up at -15, you potentially lose like 50 damage, but the tradeoff if you guess correctly is 67-80, plus oki (depending on your combo ender). 4K is good if you believe your opponent will not evade. However, comparitively, the only time you will get similar damage as serpent is if you stagger your crouching opponent (not to mention be close enough for 3K to not whiff, otherwise, you must settle with 3PK) or through forcing your opponent to guess twice (which statistically is much worse than forcing your damage after only one guess). 4K may be less total frames than serpent, but what are you gonna do from sideturned flamingo stance when you get evaded? You still have options to guess with, but you still are in a pretty bad situation where you can easily eat big damage.

    Now don't get me wrong, 4K is still one of the best moves in the game, but to say its flat out better than serpent is looking at both moves incorrectly. Serpent is for call-outs when you're confident in your mid option in nitaku and believe it will hit. 4K is when you have conditioned your opponent to not evade, and in that situation is a 'safer', statistically less damaging option to go with and allows you to keep offensive pressure going in more situations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
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  20. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

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    It is nitaku off of a meaty, but only from a meaty. If your opponent is already standing, its impossible. I guess that still makes my previous statement wrong though, lol. YOU was specifically referring to opponents not on knockdown tho, so he was still incorrect.
     

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