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Starting out with Shun #2

Discussion in 'Shun' started by Modelah, Oct 10, 2013.

By Modelah on Oct 10, 2013 at 1:26 AM
  1. Modelah

    Modelah Well-Known Member VFDC Translator Content Manager Taka

    Note: This was written by Kissa and translated by Modelah.

    Kissa's VF5FS Beginner's Blog post

    Hi, I'm Kissa, a Shun player from Tokyo. I played Lau in VF4 but have mained Shun since VF4Evo.

    Shun's Characteristics, Strengths and Weaknesses
    Some of Shun's basic techniques are poor when compared to other characters. For example, Shun's 'elbow' [6][P] attack is a disappointing -3 frames on hit. It's also slower at 15 frames rather than the standard 14 frames. Another example is the [P][K] punisher, which is -1 on hit (though [P][K][4] to BT is +3).

    Though some of his basic moves are poor, Shun has many unique stances and because there are many ways to transition into them, you'll never be short of choices to dazzle your opponent. Among them is the Chōkarō stance (entered with [6][K] etc), a powerful tool for leading into damaging setups.

    The great thing about Shun of course is his 'Drinking System'. Like a certain well-known movie character, the more drinks Shun has (X[DP]= X Drink Points), the stronger he becomes. Drinking unlocks more moves for Shun to use, and also increases the damage he can cause (an increase of about 0.8% per drink).

    In the opening round I think it's better overall to concentrate on getting drinks rather than inflicting damage. After some drinks, Shun's throw game becomes really good. There's the sober [6][P][+][G] and [6][6][P][+][G] (which gets you 4[DP]) and after 6[DP] [4][1][2][3][6][P][+][G] becomes available. His sober [P][+][G] (which gets you 2[DP]) and the more damaging [4][P][+][G] are also strong choices.

    Basic Skills
    [6][P] and [3][P]- Your basic mid attacks. Both give you +6 on counter hit, and should be used for nitaku attack or throw pressure.

    [K][+][G] and [1][K][K]- [K][+][G] is a half-circular mid (evadable to Shun's stomach), [1][K][K] is a half-circular in the opposite direction (evadable to Shun's back) giving you nitaku options. At +5 both will beat the opponent's [2][P]. Hit [G] to lie down after either of [1][K][K]'s kicks. Holding [K][+][G] transitions into Chōkarō stance, and can make the opponent rethink how to approach you.

    [4][P][+][K]- Leads to a hit throw. It's a half circular to Shun's stomach, has decent damage and long reach. At 21 frames it's quite slow so look to use it against tech-rollers or whiffed moves.

    One of the most useful moves unlocked by drinking is Chōwan Ryōken ([2][3][6][P]), which is unlocked after 6[DP]. A fast 16 frame special mid that leads to combos on normal hit. After hitting [2][P], a throw or [2][3][6][P] makes for a very strong nitaku game. 10[DP] unlocks Gōhai Senbu ([6][3][2][1][4][P][+][G]), a powerful throw that nets you another 4[DP]. A relatively tricky to escape [4]throw, it's a very valuable move when unlocked.

    [4][6][P]- Speedy at 11 frames and its follow-ups are useful too. A fast [4][6][P][P][P] will force opponents to guard and give you strong nitaku options with a throw or [P][+][K] ender (unlocked after 6[DP]).

    Shun has a lot of tools that crush opponent's moves so mastering them are paramount. For starters, [2][K] is a normal low but can crush elbow-class and weaker mids. Also, there are some special highs that crush moves.

    [6][K][+][G] can crush lows so when at large disadvantage it's possible to avoid nitaku full low-circulars and throws. After that, following with [1]/[7][P][+][K][+][G] to step away is a good technique. This causes you to move diagonally back, and when at small disadvantages allows you to avoid both attacks and throws. It's useful to note that it's different to a usual evade in that if you get hit by a full-circular attack it will only register as a normal hit. There are also 2 very useful follow-up attacks from this move. [P] is +5 on hit, and while [P][+][K] is slow it gives a head crumple on normal hit allowing you to follow-up with a combo.

    Basic Strategy
    Get drinking. Basically, knock the opponent down, distance yourself from them and get some drinks in. Go for counterhits with [6][P] and [3][P], and for nitaku pressure follow with a throw or [K][+][G] and [1][K][K].

    Generally speaking, [K][+][G], [1][K][K] and throws are great go-to moves when starting out with Shun.


    Go to Starting out with Shun #1
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
    mfwebdude, Shinobi, BeastEG and 8 others like this.


Discussion in 'Shun' started by Modelah, Oct 10, 2013.

    1. IvorB
      This is cool. I want to learn some Shun Di for sure. Too many characters to learn and not enough time. :(
      BLACKSTAR likes this.
    2. Unicorn
      This is some mistake probably - both 6p+g and 66p+g are available at 0 DP, but 6p+g gives no drinks while 66P+g gives +4 drinks.
    3. Modelah
      Heh, ooops! Fixed it, thanks.
    4. Unicorn
      This probably means that it can go under /over this moves

      both 2K and 1P of shun have such a low hurtbox it goes under most special highs and even mids

      6K+G goes over lows in the same way
    5. resist
      Just to clarify this further...a crush type move will always beat the respective hit level regardless of timing. So...the examples above always win regardless of timing and in turn allows them to be done on reaction. Where there are other attacks that will only out prioritize a hit level but only during active frames. For example k+g will also always avoid/beat lows at an even situation but it still requires timing so essentially it is not a crush. However, 6k+g can be done at any point during the opponents low attack (from the first frame all the way up until the final frame)and it will always win regardless no matter how fast the opponents attack was.

      Shun has many others that fit both these scenarios and knowing when and how to use them seem to be a major part of doing well with him (moreso than for other characters)

      Kind of hard to explain clearly so I hope that makes sense to others
      Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
    6. Modelah
      Thanks @resist. I haven't tested this stuff myself so 'crush' is the correct term to use here?
    7. resist
      I don't know if there is any vf specific term for this attack type (although its been around for many iterations of vf) but if not, I assume crush is as good as any. This term is often the "go to" term in fighting games for moves that have this type of property so....

      Maybe that's a question that can get a definitive answer in the general dojo. It should definitely have a name one way or another because the two attack types are in fact different. Some attacks avoid a specific hit level while others "crush" a specific hit level and each have their own application. Therefore to classify them all as attacks that merely avoid a certain hit level is not truly giving a full and clear understanding of the attacks ability.
      Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
      Modelah likes this.
    8. erdraug
      Thank you for translating this; i have now learned that Shun has a 11f high punch.
      Tricky likes this.
    9. resist
      But it certainly doesn't work like other high punches. Doesn't have + frames on block like a normal p would so its not used on the same way
    10. Kamais_Ookin
      It's been in the command database for years now. o_O
      BeastEG likes this.
    11. Neonomide
      The 46+P series is pretty versatile too, as Shun may cancel into BT SOU after enough drinks in addition to throw or P+K for a CH combo (better combos during the right foot stance). Also, a kill hit from any 46+P attack allows for P+K4 (when unlocked) to grant an extra DP at the end of the round (5 DP). Keeping track of both DPs and foot positions is paramount here for max combos, perhaps too hard for many players imho.

      But stance awareness is the key with Shun. Basically because all Shun's non-stance half circulars cover the back and only 1KK covers the stomach. Stance work is different, but the basic premise seems to be that using Shun's foot stance changing attacks to keep opponent guessing is important. The 46P series and 3P are useful here, even 3K. Things seem to be against 1KK since it's damage is bad, but it sure is one annoying little bitch as always and exists exactly as a major annoyance and a setup for better stuff.

      I find 6K+G amazing, as interrupting it for a float is not easy. A lot of frames so I guess an quick evade is the best in any case. Trying to play 2P game against Shun is often a painful mistake. 6K+G aside, 1P on block makes 2P whiff so even a 6K+G connect during recovery phase (the real counter to blocked 1P abare is an elbow class attack), 46P series P+K eats 2P like nothing and 3K seems to have a great hitbox for eating 2P in many situations.
      Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
    12. Tricky
      Fuudo and Itazen destroyed folks using the 46P series. It's such a great move and string that jails.
      Neonomide likes this.
    13. Modelah
      Update: Now pimped out with fresh DP emoticon goodness [DP][DP][DP]
      Neonomide and Ellis like this.
    14. Neonomide
      Shun's normal punch is 12f but it's really easy to get +3 from block by hitting with the tip of the fist, or doing two in a row which often makes the range adequate. This means that the usual 15f moves get stealth 'elbow class' properties. The 15f high punisher launcher also gets better along with the seminal 6P series.

      Adding this to awsm 11f punch series with buttload of options means that Shun is quite a nasty geezer close and personal.

      EDIT: I missed before that Shun himself also seems not to get 3P to go under Shun's 5P for some reason.
      Last edited: May 20, 2014

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