[STL VF] Evolution of a New Generation

Now that we have a VF4 Evolution machine out here (albeit not in an arcade yet) and there are new players to the scene, I figured it was time to start anew. If anyone has questions, I'll do my best to answer them and if I can't, I'm certain someone on these forums can. We currently play at least once a week, usually Friday. If anyone wants to join, just post here.

 

I think I've logged over 20 hours on Evo since KO got it on Monday. Here are a few random thoughts on some changes from Version C that I noticed:

- Aoi, Pai & Jeffry can no longer do ++ at any time. They can only do this move when the opponent is downed.

- When a throw is broken and you end up side turned, you can no longer do an evade attack from this position it seems. (Either that or I just can't do it on those Shin Virtua Sticks)

- TR'ing fast slamming hits (ie Akira's standing palm, +) is awfully difficult.

 

A BIG YAR TO ALL STL VF PLAYERS MATEY

 

Since Akira is my main character, most of his changes are apparent to me.

- single palm (+) and double palm's ( +) range are shortened. Also, double palm's recovery is now -14 on block, meaning that Akira can get be punished much more effectively (ie Lau gets a free standing palm combo now, etc), thus reducing move abuse.

- SPOD's damage has been reduced and even though the opponent can TR, it doesn't look like Akira can immediately followup on that.

- his throw game is not as good anymore. I can only use ++ for throwing people near the edge of the ring/wall. There is no guaranteed followup now. The stumble throw combo (++, +, +) is not guaranteed anymore but no one seems to be shaking out of the initial stagger from the throw. I can do double palm right after though.

- High guard break (+++) is now only -4 on hit which means opponents can no longer take the hit and throw so no one do that anymore!

- It seems like they tried to tone down Akira's damage but his float combos are still the same or better. MC knee, P, shoulder ram, new knee, hammer, will either net a TR guessing game or a down attack. Yoho (+) floats even higher now. On normal hit, I got yoho, P, shoulder ram, double palm on Goh who is almost as heavy as Jacky!

 

About a month ago, I studied Aoi's flowchart and moves so of course I tried her in Evo. Some notes:

- + no longer has sabaki properties but it looks like it is fully circular. I liked to use this before since the sabaki frames started with the move. I guess I'll have to get accustomed to + now. The sabaki frames start much later in that move though.

- + no longer crumples on MC! This is a pretty big change to her flowchart and guessing games. It's no longer throwable on block (only -6), 2 handed, and it is only 13 frames so I guess it's still usable. ++ replaces this move but it's much slower at 16 frames and is one handed.

- She lost ++. Instead she has a new ++ that also throws backward. I guess they wanted to make her throws harder to use.

- Since down throws are now breakable, I'm using ++ instead of ++

 

Vanessa notes:

- Cut upper (+) is still as useful as before despite what others have said. Even though it lost the body blow followup, having a 10 frame move is good.

- The new lightning elbow in offensive stance (++) produces the same flopping effect but it does not seem to have the special property of hitting low attacks like before.

- They balanced her throw game all around by losing ++ and ++ in defensive and adding them to offensive while also giving her a new takedown throw that ends in the back direction so in each stance she has 5 choices.

- Her P in offensive stance has been made faster (12 frames instead of 13) and it leads to new canned combos or a fake into takedown.

- Her knee (+) in defensive now links to the sleeper (++) on any hit.

 

E-DTE seems very imprortant with jeffry....

 

I'm not a Jeffry player but I've played against a handful of people that do so these are the tips I can offer you:

- and + are your main poking weapons since most of his other moves leave him at bad recovery or are too slow. If either counter hits, you need to follow up with a guessing game of either a knee that will hopefully get you a high damage MC combo or a one of his damaging throws (mix up with front back breaker (++), splash mountain (++) and spine breaker (++).

- Punish all blocked or normal hit low kicks with one of his low throws. Again, you have to mix it up since players can break 2 of his 3 choices.

- When the opponent is on the offensive and you think the opponent is going to throw you, do the kenka hook (+). You can't be thrown while you're executing the move and I believe this move has a special property of hitting low attacks. You can always get the free after it hits. The opponent can TR the last hit now so you may be able to follow up with a low throw.

- I think it's probably best to play right outside of + range. That way you can punish move whiffs and the like with throws or something like + or +. It's hard for Jeffry to be very aggressive so you'll have to use backwards crouch dash or backdash sometimes to make the opponent whiff.

 

One of my favorite tricks to use on opponents with low life or those that play machi is to use -cancels so it looks like I'm about to do a move and then actually do something else that's unexpected. They took away Akira's + -cancel (Lau's too I think but not confirmed) and Aoi's -cancel. As I mentioned in another post, Vanessa has a cancel from her offensive stance but it forces her to do the takedown so it's not as versatile.

 

Hey Eric. I was surprised to see this thread return from the dead. Hehe. Anyway, great observations so far. I'm thinking of making Goh my main character and was wondering if you had any tips for using him. It seemed hard to get anything off out of his "catch" throw as you guys were always able to get away before I could do anything...

 

The other day when you were at Tim's was the first time I tried playing him myself so I just have some newbie Goh tips:

- His standing palm (+) is great to use to interrupt an opponent's move. It only takes 13 frames to come out (1 frame slower than his ) and on any type of counter hit it will cause a slamming hit that you can float off of. I was doing simple combos like MC standing palm, , + and then watched for the TR. If they TR to one of the sides, do the trip (++ or ++). If the TR is right in front, then you could try the sabaki -> grapple (+, +) so that it would grab them right when they get up or try to evade or just low throwing the TR but that's harder to do.

- His throw game is one of the best so I'd take advantage of that when you don't have a guaranteed attack when you block an opponent's move (-8 to -11). I believe he has every direction except for . A good mix up of throws should work well. I think his down attack (+) is guaranteed after ++.

- After you block an attack like +, you could use something like the elbow hit throw (+, ++ on MC). The blocked + puts the opponent at -4 and Goh's elbow is 16 frames so if you input it correctly, it will beat almost any attack the opponent attempts and gets you the counter hit needed for the throw. A few possible ways to use the ++ hit throw are to do it from range if you think the opponent will do some kind of long range move or if you blocked a move that has bad recovery and they try to do some defensive technique like G-DTE or E-DTE. I believe the kick is only half circular though and I think you could it on reaction.

- For the grapple, he has options for 4 directions ( or or or ) plus neutral. It seems like you have to decide what you want to do and quickly input it or the grapple is automatically broken much like Wolf's catch throw.

 

Offense usually comes easier to new players than defense so I thought I'd write a few things about that aspect of the game that you should think about.

Besides knowing what will hit off a combo starting move, you should also know what happens when the move is blocked. -8 or worse means a move is throwable but if the recovery is -10 or larger then hits will become guaranteed. -11 to -13 covers every characters' except for Vanessa in defensive but she has cut upper which is 10 frames and some characters have combo starters that are exactly 13 frames so you have to be careful of using moves that have this bad of a disadvantage. As an example, both Lau and Goh have 13 frame standing palms that will slam the opponent to the ground & result in damage on par or greater than their best throws and no defensive technique will get you of that if the opponent doesn't miss the opportunity. I've found that most intermediate players will try to throw while advanced players will go for the guaranteed damage from a blocked move if possible. Still, it is good to do some defensive techniques for these situations to reduce your opponents choices but you should know what is exactly guaranteed. (I know that the frame stats for Evo aren't up on this site but generally, you can look at the Version C stuff and it'll be the same.)

The PS2 VF4 training mode goes over some basic defensive techs like E-GTE (evade-guard throw escape). These are probably the top 3 that are used:

E-DTE (evade double throw escape)
- tap or then do 2 throw breaks

R-DTE (reverse/counter double throw escape)
- do an available counter such as ++ then 2 throw breaks

GDTE (guard double throw escape)
- do 2 throw breaks but with the last throw break keep held down

None fully protect you but all will reduce the probablity of you taking damage. E-DTE will go around linear & half circular moves (provided that you moved in the correct direction) and you break 2 of the opponent's throw options. The downsides are that if the opponent does nothing, you'll move to the side & have a whiff throw motion and fully circular moves will hit it as well as delayed moves which will strike you during the movement. Generally though, most characters have a lot of moves that are half circular in one direction and very few in the other so this is a useful technique. R-DTE is a very risky technique since you're only protecting yourself from hits in one area and unless your Aoi, you can't counter every type of move. G-DTE lets you break throws without a whiff while you stand in place. The negative is that you can be hit low and catch throws can beat this. The bottomline is that these techniques help reduce the probablity of you getting damaged so I'd recommend using them. There are other variations but this is a good start.

 

Saint Louis,
Anyone up for vf evolution this tuesday evening?? If you can attend please post back.
Laters ^^ <font color="blue"> </font color>

 

hmm it sounds like a *slight* possiblity for me actually, my family isn't going to be having any get togethers until tomorrow....

 

If someone has a magic weather control machine, could you please set it to spring now?

 

hmm, I think we need a list of all the people that are going to be playing VF...
Eric, Tim, Me, Aaron...who else besides that..? Aren't NKI and Unconkable also interested?

 

Tim: I don't feel like going back out in the snow tonight but I'm free all day tomorrow. Thankfully I don't have family gatherings and crap to get in the way of what I want to do on X-Mas. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Anyway, let me know if you can swing it...
Eric: Do you know of any place in STL (or on the net) where I can get a power supply for my Japanese PS2? I got it in May of 2000 so I believe it's version 1.

 

Killbomb:
I checked around a few of the HK sites and found one only at A.I. Trading. In STL, you could try the Game Trader. He may have dead early generation PS2s sitting in the back.

 

I guess this is the place to post it, so...

I was talking to Kris and he mentioned something about coming out there some time in January. If this is a go, I will coming with him for the weekend. We have had evo up here for a while, so we should be good to go for some competition.

 

Nutlog:
I believe lonelyfighter said he was coming up the 17th-19th of January. I'll make sure I'm free to play during that time so there's no problem on my end. The Evo setup here is owned by an individual so it's always on free play. /versus/images/icons/cool.gif

If you guys still have Sumeragi's DC joystick, could you bring it down?