Strategies: Anti Rising Attacks

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by ken, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Okizeme is applying pressure to a downed opponent. This includes attacking them when they attempt to rise and keeping them downed.

    This thread is for character based strategies to combat the Rising Attack.

    Rising attacks are either:
    1) mid
    2) low

    Rising Attacks can be executed in the following positions:
    -Face Up
    -Face Down
    -Head towards
    -Head Away

    Generally speaking these are the properties of rising kicks. Some characters have different moves but for majority the following applies:

    Face Up:
    The rising attack will be a full-circular and a crescent attack
    -you cannot dodge the attack.
    -generally sabaki and reversals wont work either. Except for Aoi who can reverse crescent attacks.

    Face Down:
    The rising attack will be half-circular and reversable.
    -You can dodge both mid and low rising kick by walking/dodging towards the raised leg/knee.
    -When the opponent is knocked to the ground the "raised knee" is always the leading foot. This corresponds to the opponent's back prior to when they were knocked down.


    Note:
    If two attacks of same hit-level occur simultaneously and collide the move of greater damage power will win.

    A rising attack does 25 points of damage. So any move of greater power will defeat it.
     
  2. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Re: Strategies: Anti Rising Attacks for Lei-Fei

    Now for some of my character specific anti rising kick strats:
    ie:
    -vs MID
    -vs LOW
    -URA (getting to the opponents back.. ie after a rising attack)

    Lei Fei:

    <font color=orange>vs Mid:</font color=orange>

    "[IN]d+K"
    The key here is distance and timing. The kick will not duck under if you're too close. Its better to do this at the initial stages of the rising kick.

    "[DM]P+K"
    If you get the distance just right a partial or fully charged "arrow punch" will duck under the mid-rising kick for a head crumble. Depending on luck you might overshoot them and so "b+P, P" may not connect.

    "f, f+K+G"
    Timing is crucial here. The timing of this move is to have the second leg in the inverted kickflip come out at the same time as the rising kick. Distance is sorta important as well.. otherwise you'll find yourself in Back-Turned [TG] stance if you hop over opponent. Hit P for the palm as the kick is too slow in this situation.

    If the opponent is face down:
    Execute this move early and bait them into rising attack. Your sabaki will work in this situation. Its a pretty worthwhile gamble.

    <font color=orange>vs LOW:</font color=orange>

    "f, f+K+G"
    This move will hop over the kick and hit them. It hops very quickly so timing is not as important as anticipation.


    <font color=orange>URA methods:</font color=orange>

    "[DM]P+K"
    if you're close to a rising opponent. Use the arrow punch to jump over them when they're lying down. It important to be airborne above them as they are starting to rising attack. If you are successful do: "[BT]K+G - K - K - K..."

    You should also charge the attack according to the distance required. Also Lei's Backturned "d+K" is arguably the longest in the game.

    Note:
    Lei Fei cannot hop backwards when Back Turned. So he cannot hop back over like other characters.
     
  3. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Re: Strategies: Anti Rising Attacks for Shun

    Here are some strats for Shun:

    <font color=orange>vs Mid:</font color=orange>

    "Sitting Down, d+P+K" & "Lying Down, "b>f"
    If you're not too close then all rising kicks will miss you. When the mid-kick misses you do the appropriate move for these stances.

    "Sitting Down"
    if the mid-kick misses you then execute "K" to kick them. Its a 41:25 gamble. As this kick does 41 damage on MC.

    "Upside Down + P+K"
    If you're upside down, walk/hop backwards and do this from a distance. It will float if you time this correctly. Timing should be late and Distance is medium/far. Remember you can fake this move and lie down for combo or to drink.

    <font color=orange>vs LOW:</font color=orange>
    "Sitting Down - K"
    This kick will jump over the low kick. Its very hard to differentiate between the mid and low rising kicks. Sitting down has an answer to both mid and low rising attacks. Do this early for low and late for mid.

    "f+K+G"
    This has to be timed late as this kick hops very quickly.

    <font color=orange>URA strats:</font color=orange>

    "df, df+P?"
    Can someone test this one out? Too much VF over the weekend.. Tried lots of things ... I think this one goes thru the opponent if done at the right timing..

    "uf+P+K+G" or "df+P+K+G"
    You can dodge fairly quickly around to the oponents rear if you do this at the right timing and direction. You may need to do it 2 to 4 times to get around to their back.
     
  4. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    If you have some particular strats for other characters please feel free to contribute them to this thread...
     
  5. 3of19

    3of19 Well-Known Member

    Just a little Brainstorming

    Lion:
    vs low:
    u+k (k) timing is a bit hard especially if the opponent delays the kick, but is VERY damaging for countering a rising attack. I'm not exactly sure, but if you smack your opponent into the wall with this, it is also pounceable?

    Jacky:
    [SS] k
    If you play Kumite, you'll see some of the higher ranked Jackys do that one from time to time. Very nasty.

    Everyone:
    It seems you can use sidekicks to stuff most rising attacks if your timing is just right. There is a trial in trial training on this subject.
    ken, you wrote in the thread about Lions dodge attack:

    "Lion dodge attack

    is great for punishing both mid rising and low rising kick.

    vs Mid Rising kick
    1 - mainly use the "dodge attack" if the kick is whiffed.

    2 - hop over the opponent.. if close enough. If you time it correctly. If you do the hop too early..
    just hop back over again.

    3 - If the opponent is facing down.... "qcb+P" will sabaki the kick.

    Note:
    Lion's dodge attack has some very interesting properties:

    -0 or -2 frames if blocked (depends on which way you execute up or down):
    this is one of the fastest recovery for a DA (Dodge Attack)
    -successful hit causes a flop:
    -will defeat a low punch "

    Just thought it would kinda fit in here.
     
  6. BakuBaku

    BakuBaku Well-Known Member

    Anyone got any Pai stuff?
     
  7. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Re: Just a little Brainstorming

    Lion:
    vs low:
    u+k (k) timing is a bit hard especially if the opponent delays the kick, but is VERY damaging for countering a rising attack. I'm not exactly sure, but if you smack your opponent into the wall with this, it is also pounceable?


    yes.

    And you can add MetalButter's trick to the Lion okizeme : P+G (opp. knocked down), P, P, f+P,[TT] d+K.
    same goes for the [TA] hop, backwards hop, [TT] d+K.
     
  8. Onny

    Onny Well-Known Member

    Sarah Okizeme:

    Kind of obvious and horribly generic, but her Full Spin Drive (u+K) works wonders if timed correctly. Beats both low and mid level rising attacks, and seeing as it's a MC you can tag your favourite float on the end. marvelous!
     
  9. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    In the same vein, Sarah's u+K+G/f+K+G still works wonders against rising attacks or QRs... not as powerful, but very easy to time.
     
  10. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    For Lau, u/f+P is easy to time if you correctly predict rising sweeps, and leads to an easy combo like P,b+P,P. It only wins by virtue of hopping over the attack, not by being more powerful.

    A cute trick that will work once vs. your opponent, and then probably never again:
    knock them down
    do P,b+P to turn away (and hopefully bait them into a rising attack)
    u+K+G will beat rising attacks of either type (with decent timing).

    Other attacks that will beat a rising attack -

    d/f+P+K - supposedly it can interrupt rising attacks of either type, if you go by the 'greater damage' rule, but I have little luck with this. Instead, I try to bait the opponent into whiffing a rising attack, and then scrape them with the tip of lau's hand just after their kick misses. Even vs. rising sweeps, a minor counter with this gives a sufficient float for d/f+PPPsweep.

    the b,b+P,d+PPPsweep combo can be used the same way, except it's easier to interrupt rising attacks with it (as opposed to punishing the opponent after their kick has missed). Also, a cheeky but entertaining trick: the sweep in PPPd+K can beat rising attacks, so your opponent might see spastic punching and try a rising kick, only to be disgusted when your sweep beats them. I'd love to see someone time PPPK and have the K beat a high rising attack. That'd be hilarious, not to mention draining 30% of the opponent's lifebar.

    Finally, a few unlikely moves that CAN beat both high and low rising attacks, but need good timing:

    heelkick (while standing K)
    TA crescent (b+K+G)
    shrieking crescent (b+K+G)
    sweep (d+K+G)
    charged double palm (P+K charged for a few seconds)
    flipkick (u/b+K) ... this one's actually not hard to use, since it has high priority anyway.
     
  11. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    The typical pai trick is to get over the opponent when they're knocked down using u/f+K (single swallow kick).

    Then when they get up, they hopefully do a rising attack in the wrong direction, and you can hit them with either
    ---d+K (turn towards sweep, boo)
    or
    ---d+P,P,f+P (turn towards low blue fist combo) which floats them for a combo.

    Other strategies: stand just outside of the range of their rising sweep, and hit them with d/f+K. They will stagger backwards and you can then try to take advantage of the stagger with a throw or strong attack.

    If you know they like rising sweeps, u/f+K,K often beats rising sweeps, and also does decent damage and knocks down again. Another strategy (less reliable, more for showing off and okizeme purposes) is to wait until just after the rising sweep misses, then dash forward and do pai's low throw. Then do u/f+K,K from behind them.

    I haven't tested it, but b+K+G is strong enough to interrupt high rising attacks. It will lose to low rising attacks. The kick in [d/f+P, K] looks similar and can also do the same thing, with the advantage that your opponent is more likely to try a rising attack if they see the low blue fist. The problem is that if the opponent is down, d/f+P will turn into a ground punch, and so you must knock them down and immediately HOLD D/F afterwards in order to make the low blue fist come out.

    According to VP, pai's sweep (d+K+G) does thirty points and may beat either kind of rising attack when timed correctly.
     
  12. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: Strategies: Anti Rising Attacks: Jerky

    I can't remember whether or not it was posted... there are movies of this trick, and I know the links to those were posted. It's very powerful, so I'll (re)post the exact method.

    After knocking the opponent down (let's say with the P+G throw) hop over them. Use u/f+P and hold punch, you don't want to do an attack.
    -do a turn-towards pump backfist (P+K)
    -the opponent, if they did a high rising attack, will be interrupted by this move and stumble.
    -do a puntkick. Normally a puntkick should knock the opponent away, but in this case, the game gets confused and the opponent does a typical puntkick stagger animation (they don't have a special puntkick-from-behind animation). What this means is that the opponent is knocked CLOSER to you and staggered too.
    -do another move, such as a knee. A knee from behind will float some opponents high enough to do an easy PP-knee followup.

    The whole thing does a LOT of damage, like it damn near kills them from a full lifebar. It probably fails if they do a rising sweep instead of rising high kick.

    Alternate ending after the puntkick: u/b+K+G, pounce
     
  13. BEM

    BEM Member

    For Pai, I use the DSK (u/f+K, K) to hop low rising attacks. Against high rising attacks, I've used d/b+P successfully a few times - you want to distance it so that the step back moves you out of range of the high kick. After the d/b+P hits, you can tack on PPKK in the float.

    I've used the CE stance to avoid high rising attacks in the past (e.g. b+K, d, high rising attack wiffs overhead, P+K to interrupt and float) but it takes too long to set up to be effective.

    EDIT: On the Beta, I seem to remember using Pai's sidestep reversal (u+P+K or d+P+K) successfully against a rising sweep. I believe the opponents kick was deflected by her outstretched leg and the opponent went into a stumble animation, similar to when Aoi reverses an opponents rising sweep.

    Could someone confirm whether this works? It was a while ago and I may well be mistaken.
     
  14. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    For Shun: f+k is the one I attempt to use the most as it gives a nice float and has a gauranteed follow up. It beats both high and low risers the timing is different for each but its worth learning IMO. By far the easiest move in Shun's arsenal to interupt risers with are his Handstand kicks. They just stay out there so damned long its silly. You dont even need good timing basically if you think they will do a rising attack just tap on K. I am currently working on the Chouwan but its timing is kinda rough as it should be.
     
  15. a_l_e_x

    a_l_e_x Active Member

    I seem to remember using Pai's sidestep reversal (u+P+K or d+P+K) successfully against a rising sweep.

    It works against a TR, not sure about plain rising sweep.

    I believe the opponents kick was deflected by her outstretched leg and the opponent went into a stumble animation, similar to when Aoi reverses an opponents rising sweep.

    No it's different. The opponent will be tripped and fall down. You can try a ground punch afterward.
     
  16. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Any attack that does 20 points of damage will defeat a rising kick, both mid and low.

    Generally for all characters:

    d+K+G
    will consistently defeat rising attacks.

    Otherwise you can try some major float or crumble moves for combo chances.

    Condition and tips:
    -Your move must do at least 20points of damage
    -Your move must execute at approx 16-24 frames
    -enter the attack when the opponent starts to rise.

    Some worthy mentions:

    Akira:
    Bodycheck
    does up to 72 points of damage, possible ura if unsuccessful

    Lei Fei:
    "uf+K+G"
    -vs mid and low

    [IN]K+G
    -vs mid only, combo into "uf+K+G - d+P - uf+K+G - df+K" for 80+ points.

    d+K+G
    -vs mid and low... doesn't have must combo potential


    Lau:
    -basically all his floating moves will work
    -float and combo for 60-90 points of damage.

    "df+P+K"
    -the easiest one to do. vs mid only

    "uf+P"
    -hopping attack vs low

    "D, df+P"
    -vs both mid and low, difficult timing
    -I managed to do "D, df+P, P+K - D, df+P, P+K" for 83 points
    -otherwise stick to "D, df+P, P+K - PPPK" for 70+

    d+K+G
    -vs mid and low
     
  17. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Akira:

    Knee
    -will only hit low if you're in //, parallel or open stance

    "Dbl Tiger Palm, D, b, f+P"
    -vs mid and low
     
  18. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Re: Strategies: ANTI - Anti Rising Attacks

    If you're reading the strategies above and you're thinking .. "gee VF4 is starting to play like Tekken".. think again..

    Simply don't do a rising attack and get up normally and punish the whiffed attacks. Or employ some delay and/or rolling to mix up the timing required.
     
  19. kbelanger

    kbelanger Member

    Re: Strategies: ANTI - Anti Rising Attacks

    One "Anti Rising Attack" that has worked well for me with Wolf is the drop kick (u/f+k). It hits low rising attacks when timed properly and a high rising attack will not hit you... Plus if the move doesn't hit, you are usually not in a whole lot of trouble beacuse you end up on the ground.
     
  20. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Akira:

    Knee
    -will only hit low if you're in //, parallel or open stance


    I didn't know of that requirement, thanks.
    Any "standard" knee works well for okizeme IMO. Sarah/Jacky/Wolf/Jeff can all use their f+K. The knee will even win vs. high rising attacks and when it doesn't hit, you quite often end up back to back with your opponent. Jacky has some seriously nasty options from there as Creed noted above...

    I don't remember Akira's charged attack being mentioned...
     

Share This Page