Strats versus El Blaze?

Is there any way to defend correctly agains't rocked discharge +'s follow ups? I usually try to block both high but the + drives me crazy -_-' mostly online where i cannot stagger correctly.

 

The mixup after + is pretty much one of two options:
Either for the full circular guard-breaking kick (high)
or for the flying elbow (mid, leads into a combo)

For the K followup, the general rule of thumb is to standing block the cartwheel (2 hits, mid), and duck under the second K, should leave your opponent pretty open for punishment.

For the P followup, you'll want to standing block both, and which will leave el blaze open to a pk or throw punish.

The best response is probably fuzzy guarding after the +, which should duck under the kick and lower your risk of getting elbowed in the head as well.

Worst thing you can probably do in this situation is push buttons, I know that's what I'm counting on when I use the cartwheel stuff.

 

Here some findings on how to defend from the Rocket Discharge mixup.

After 4PK (on block) > RD you can beat everything except the drop kick with moves up to 13 frames with no priority and up to 14 frames if it deals more damage than the knee (tnx unicorn)
If you evade the knee after a 4PK blocked he is -18.

After 4PK (on block/normal hit) > RD every options are beaten by 33G~2G
If you evade the knee after a 4PK on normal hit he is -13.

After 4PK (the kick on counter hit) > RD crouch fuzzy guard beats everything except the knee leaving you at -6 (so he need to guess another time in order to get his damage)
If you evade the knee after a counter hit he is only -10.

There's another options to defend against 4PK (on guard/normal hit) or 46K (on guard) RD mixup that involves some risk but good reward in case you guess right.
If you just crouch back dash you can whiff punish things like the throw, the knee etc or guard on reaction the drop kick.
The only thing that beats this option is 9K+G.
But if you evade 9K+G is launcher punishable and if he goes for a followup he will even get counter hit damage!
So yes you risk something but it's a 50/50 and if you look at the number he gets less damage (a lot less against heavier charachters) than he eats in case he guesses wrong.

After 46K (on block) > RD everything is beaten by 33G~2G

To defend from the RD 9K+G followup mixup (mid punch combo starter or high full circular guard break) you just need to crouch fuzzy guard (don't do it asap or you'll get hit by the guard break).
A normal fuzzy guard works but the timing is stricter.
When the high full circolar whiffs it recover pretty fast leaving you with only PK on reaction.
But you can use the crouch fuzzy guard-attack option select of your choice to punish it better.

 

Just small note - I may be wrong but according to my testing it is actually up to 14f if you have enough damage..?

 

El Blaze exposed!?

I think El Blaze should jump back out of on block, more often than not doing so. He does have RD and RD to crush lows though.

 

Am I missing something here? I believe every blaze knows they are negative on frames from that entry on block, but one good read on your opponent or the slightest hesitation, you still end up on your ass. You could always 4PKP to beat almost everything you have suggested so far to beat RD for the head stun crumple combo.

May the mind games begin.

 

Nice find G0d3L. I believe that if you have a 13fr mid like Aoi or Pai, it blows out all El Blaze's options if he enters RD from a blocked entry move.

The last punch of 4PKP is a high, so how it can beat CD fuzzy ?

And even if El Blaze is negative on frames after entering RD on block, we still need to know what moves can beat his fastest options ( the knee )

 

are you referring to my post?
because every defensive options I listed beat the last high punch of 4PKP
The abare ones are there just to know what can beat the knee/throw/drop kick/etc

didn't test out priority.
Thanks Uni, will edit my post.

 

Another option after you block blaze 4pk is to throw out a jab and check if they throw out a rd 2k, which is still blockable because of the jab's short recovery time.

The 4pkp ender is just meant to prevent 4pk from being punished, so as Blaze, make sure you hitcheck 4pk, and only use the p ender if the opponent tries to take the advantage after blocking!

 

i pretty much just look for how the 2nd hit of 4pk6 lands and do the following if i think my opponent knows how to deal with it.

block/nh = jump back

ch = catch throws or k

on ch the catch throws will eat through moves if you guess the right attack level. the knee is fuzzy safe on block. nothing is guaranteed from a ch 4p[k] so i think these are the safest options.

if i think the opponent doesn't know how to deal with it i'll mix in 9k+g mixup and 2k for combo opportunity.

4pkp i only use in combos since it's pretty much punishable on block, proper evade, and ducking.

4p on hit/ch into throw or 1p is a decent option since everyone is scared of the k mid full circular followup.

 

The real way to use 4PK is to keep it RANDOM; Sometimes you do 4PK, sometimes you do 4PK into RD, sometimes you do 4PK...P. Everybody sensible on this Earth knows that Blaze is at negative frames after 4PK into RD, and 4PK is -13 on block by itself, so naturally they'll try to attack from time to time, that's why you do the delayd third hit, which is safe but high, and sometimes when they freeze in fear of that, you mix it up by doing RD throw. Simple, basic mixups, they work. However if you get predictable, Brad will P+K+G you and kill you for example.

 

I don't think that random is the right way to do it.
Sure you need to mix it up but as 001 already said it mostly depends on your opponents habits.
And I'm saying this not as an opponent but as a wannabe El Blaze player.

No he is not.
If he enters RD from a blocked 4PK is +2 (the knee is 16 frames and it's beaten only by 13 frames or faster moves or 14 frames ones who deals more damage)
The problem is that he has limited options from RD.

Frozen in fear of high followup?
Frozen in fear of 21 (31 on CH) points of damage?

Mixup from a situation where he is -13 if he stops?
Mixup when EVERYTHING is beaten by ONE defensive technique?

The final P is there only to take away some of your opponent's options lessening your disadvantage situation.

You can get a REAL mixup only after 4PK hits on CH (it's not even a nitaku situation).
It becomes a mixup only on CH because he has more options than his opponents and on average he gets more damage than he eats.

 

You need to play the game instead of just theory fighting, that's all I'm going to say. I have forced shit upon people far more silly than what Blaze is capable with 4PK which should never work, IN THEORY. All that I said about 4PK works like a charm when you know how to use it.

 

Because those people don't know how to deal with the RD stuffs probably...

 

yeah you're right, thanks for the advice mate!
next time I'll see at the next european tournament you could show me how it's really done.
See you soon buddy

 

By the way, what about the RD -> low catch throw..

I guess jumping as pana suggested is a good answer.

 

Completely forgot about that!
But thanks to you my dear bitch I found out a very interesting corollar (if you are interested here you can find a complete analysis)

About the low catch throw it turns out that you can escape both low & standing throw and still able to guard the knee with a well timed crouch fuzzy guard.
You have only 1 frame to avoid both throws but after you get a visual clue when to do the cfg you can get more than 90% succes rate.

Obviously El Blaze can delay his RD followup so a delayed standing catch throw will beat this defensive technique.

 

Didn't even realize i responding mostly to Manji"s post from a year and a half ago *facepalm*
Thats what I get for reading this thread in one sitting after this long.
Crouch throw does blow up fuzzy but there are tricky options you guys may be forgetting about like jump canceling RD into a mid kick, or buffer a throw in the jump or something stupid like that. Not frame tight at all but just one in a plethora of options to make people think.

 

It's simple: if you get a counterhit on the k, you get a free nitaku since the only way to avoid the throw is to attack (or jump i think), which will get beaten out by the knee (9k+g) might work as well.

So going into RD from a counterhit is legit.

NH means blaze has enough advantage to beat out any abare attempt with his knee, but the opponent still has options available to avoid a nitaku mixup. At this point mind games are the way to go for both parties.

On block the opponent can shut down everything blaze can do from RD, so it's unadvisable for blaze to try anything. However, the option is still there to stop the opponent from comfortably taking his turn. The p-ender serves this purpose as well.

So,hitchecking is important, not only for blaze, but for the opponent as well! For example, if you play against blaze and try to fuzzy every time he does 4pk, blaze gets a free hotdog everytime he lands the k followup on counterhit if he catches you doing that.

Additionally: be aware that blaze gets nitaku after he hits rd k, which is really strong considering the move is only -4 on block.

EDIT: I just noticed you cant even hitcheck to go into rd.. So what 001 suggested is right, just jump back if you get your k blocked. How did I miss this? This sure changes my approach to the move, damn..

 

if you read my last post you'll see that's not the case.

A cfg will still defend against those "mixups".

If I see El Blaze going in the air the safer options is to go for an ECD on reaction (do it late as possible) to beat every options from jump cancel (ascending K/P, descending K/P or empty jump throw) and punish El Blaze with big damage.

Still the mixup is not in El Blaze favour because a simple jab on reaction will lead to a full juggle (P > P > bound > etc) and will lose only to an ascending K/P that will net you much less damage.

If the opponent blocks the ascending P El Blaze is at -52!
The best option from jumping is the ascending K that leaves El Blaze at -5.

Again those options are legit if you are using them to limit your opponent's options but not for a offensive mixup purpose.

Obv if you can read the opponent/he doesn't know how to properly defend everything become a mixup.
What I'm talking here it's from a statistical point of view where huge difference in skills/mu knowledge/habits/reads don't factor in.
In fact I didn't say you don't have to use this or that, or you have to use this 43% of the time and that 86% of the time; everything depends on a lot of others factors but this type of analysis should help deciding how to sort out your strategy/flowcharts.

After the kick of 4PK hits you on CH and El Blaze enters RD it's not a nitaku situation: you can still crouch fuzzy guard to avoid hotdog.
In this case the knee and the low catch throw will connect but it's not a nitaku situation