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Strats versus El Blaze?

Discussion in 'El Blaze' started by Rommil, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. daRockReaper

    daRockReaper Shadow Hammer MADNESS Bronze Supporter

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    But a single frame tight execution on defense is pretty excellent play. On offense you at least have a rhythm to what your doing. But to see something, react to it appropriately, and still execute that reaction on a single frame, that something most players would need to focus on the entire match to pull off and when Blaze has better RD set ups after 6K6 or 46k46 or just a well placed 9K+G6, seems kinda silly to focus that hard on that one option.
     
  2. kingo

    kingo My bitch G0d3L is a scrub Content Manager Aoi

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    No, that one frame is here to explain why a CD fuzzy guard can naturally beat both catch throw and low catch throw. Just do a CD fuzzy as soon as you block the kick of 4PK.
    It doesn't require any particular tight execution.
     
  3. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    I thought I posted a massive breakdown on defending against Blaze's mixups last year. I had a look through the forums but I can't find it D:

    I must have typed it up and never posted it. Sorry guys. A lot of everything was hit on here though. Some folk have let it whizz over their head from the look of things (again, lol). I'll have to check some of my old VF notes and see if there is anything worth bringing up.

    Jumping back is pretty sound in most situations due to the threat from RD or the P finisher but as is always the case, you really need to read your opponent. I think (almost) all of us are aware of this. Doing something randomly is rarely, if ever a good idea.

    i remember Jacky's P4K being able to stuff RD mixups from blocking the entry. IIRC Akira's PP done the same (or his 13f mid, unless the entry was from demon's tail on block). Sideturn 4PK was jokes though.
     
  4. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep

    4P,K,P last his can be nice when there's a wall waiting on the side.
     
  5. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    I think you can find the reason of this missing post right here at the beginning of this very thread

    If you could recover some of your informations would be great
     
  6. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    Oh wow. I'm such a dick. I'll check through my stuff when I get home.

    D:
     
  7. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

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    Ha! G0d3l you're totally right! I'm so misinformed! I think I just assumed the throw was unduckable cos it was like that in vanilla.

    It's still nitaku since the knee will hit if you fuzzy, though. Just tested it quickly, seems like this is the case. If i'm wrong, blaze could just delay the throw a little bit to make it nitaku (actually, since the knee is what makes it nitaku, delaying throw timing is a valuable tool for mindfucking :D)
     
  8. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's nitaku cause you can still crouch to avoid the throw or attack (airborne moves etc).
    It's a situation between a fuzzable one and a true nitaku one
     
  9. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

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    The thing about nitaku is that you have to choose between getting hit by an attack or getting thrown. In this situation the only option you have to avoid the throw are crouching, jumping or attacking, all of which get beaten out by the knee, which would mean it's a nitaku situation.

    Of course, getting hit by the knee is not the end of the world, so it's not that scary, but still, seems like a genuine nitaku to me.
     
  10. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    Blaze can just straight up 9G out of that shit and jump in your face. So many stupid options available to you. If you are sideturned rocket discharge is pretty scary.
     
  11. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    My bad.

    There's at least two types of nitaku: the one where the only way to avoid the throw 100% is to attack risking a CH and then there are certain situations & charachters where you can avoid the throw 100% risking only a NH (K~G cancel, some of Shun's stance etc).
    So there's a hard nitaku and a soft one and in my mind I, wrongly, use to call nitaku only the hard.

    So what I meant is that is just a soft nitaku where you're not risking that much.

    I already looked in those scenarios a few posts ago and the mixup/damage is not in his favour.

    Did't test RD options on a sideturned opponent though.
    Need to look into that.
    Any news about your lost infos?
     
  12. daRockReaper

    daRockReaper Shadow Hammer MADNESS Bronze Supporter

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    While I will admit it loses its effectiveness from 4PK into RD, from range RD jumping out is really useful like empty demon dance with the threat alone of the kick hitting you into a BT mix up among the best in the game between his grab, sweep, stab blade combo starter and mid kick hit throw
     
  13. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

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    St 4pk is pretty nasty, the throw is unduckable even on NH, and the knee gets a followup on stCH.

    And to clear it all up G0d3l: nitaku translates into 'two choice', that's why i was such a hardass.
     
  14. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    I know what it means, it's just that the lack of terms for the different "levels" of nitaku made me use it in an improper way.

    you stood your, right, point ;)
     
  15. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    What I had typed up before isn't on my computer. There's a chance it could be on my girlfriend's laptop though. :(

    As fro 9G-ing from RD, it is pretty lousy but it is always another option, as I said: "So many stupid options available to you".

    Empty Demon dance is pretty solid though once you have beat aggression out of someone. Blaze has a decent backturn.
     
  16. G0d3L

    G0d3L Well-Known Member

    finger crossed ;)

    I completely agree with you as other guys where saying before, keeping your opponent on their toes about RD options is a high priority for El Blaze players.

    I really like the charachter and I'm just trying to find out what the charachter can do and what cannot, his skills and his weak points without factoring in, for the moment, reading your opponent, your opponent skills etc...
     
  17. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    His most useful, non-standard moves (for me anyway) were the 46P strings, 4PK stuff and demon dance stuff. He is pretty strong when he gets going but more often than not I feel like you really need to put a lot on the line to get big damage. Feels very different from vanilla. Oh! 1P+K was an odd one for me, I used it very little but I think it would be quite useful against certain mixups.

    He is a lot of fun to play though and I'm glad others are looking at him. Happy krye is using him again as well as it's because of him I picked Blaze up in the first place.
     
  18. Krye

    Krye French Star Player

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    Ha! Thanks Seidon :)

    For me his most essential move is 4p+k nowadays, since it's his only nitaku move that actually reaches further than the tip of his nose. Now, since this leaves Blaze backturned, it would be interesting to see how punishable it actually is! Anyone up for testing this?

    I'm having a lot of trouble catching turtles, so as far as strats vs Blaze go: staying away and using your keep-out tools seems pretty valid. Most of Blazes reaching moves are 20+ frames, and most of them don't even reach that far, so it's easy to whiffpunish Blaze if he's careless, and if he's good at guessing the distance you can just keep him out with your faster keep-out moves.

    Reversing the usefulness of 1p+k for El Blaze, and once again confronting the little man with his lack of reach: he himself has serious trouble dealing with this kind of move. The only consistent move that would beat regular 2p/p abare and moves like pai 1p is, again, 4p+k. If the opponent mixes this kind of move into their defense, it becomes very difficult for Blaze to mount an effective or varied offense. Of course, 4p+k will give a nice combo if it hits on counter hit, so it's not like he's powerless against these moves, but you can really limit him in his options. The fact that he takes so much damage from combo's makes it extra scary. Good thing to keep in mind while fighting the little man.
     
  19. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze Gold Supporter

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    Playing against people with a solid defense really bugged me. If I couldn't get rocket discharge nonsense going on them I felt really limited and would have to make broad guesses to try and get some good damage. I am not a fan of his guard break at all if it was better (and didn't have such stupid starting conditions) then it would really help him. The lack of reach is a pain. His 3K might as well be knee range.

    46K is one of my favourite moves to use with him against overly defensive people. Especially if I think they struggle against RD (or it's online because RD online is jokes).

    4P+K is pretty solid, hunting out some ch is really rewarding although once it gets blocked you are in a pretty lousy position. I can't test atm but IIRC his backturned K+G (is that the input? jumping kick which causes head crumple) can beat 2P and highs. But the window for it to do that may be awkward.
     

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