Stumbling Trip (new toys/easier buffers)

I've had some trouble utilizing Akira's Stumbling Trip throw.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

It can actually be input as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. That must be Sega's way of forgiving the xbox controller users, but I find it AWESOME for a stick input.

It's followups are listed under Kuzushi in the movelistings. They are normally buffered:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

I've found something interesting in getting them to come out faster and more consistently. [if someone else knows of it, I'm sorry but I didn't find your earlier post ]

Instead of using the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif input, I've found using 'street fighter' quarter circle motions work far better. [unlike SPoD's final /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, the direction you do the inputs DOES matter]

For an instant dblplm from kuzushi status, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can be input LONG BEFORE Akira even recovers from his own throw animation for fastest timing. [even the cpu AI can't escape it oddly enough on expert level]

For the instant SHOVE TO HELL'S HIGHWAY [geez it pushes far], /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can ringout if you position your throw. [again, input it LONG BEFORE Akira even finishes the throw animation]

Kuzushi stance also comes from his guard breaking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif maneuvers, you can do the 'street fighter' inputs LONG before Akira finishes the move and WHAM, fastest timing.

You can buffer some other punches too, like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif but that's obvious.

What's NOT obvious is that [tested on Sarah, not yet on others], you can buffer /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after the stumbling throw assuming your foe is somewhat confused/lazy and they don't waggle, it will HIT, and then you can go into bounce juggle combos or your prefered ringout method of choice, pretty cool don't ya think? ^_^

The movelists also state that the reverse switch throw: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif causes Kuzushi stumble status, but I didn't test it with these 'fastest input' shortcuts yet. Anyone find out if it creates unblockable setups?

 

The quarter circle motion you mentioned works because it goes into crouch dash, you can do this a few ways. I prefer /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif on a stick but /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif seem easier on a pad.

I'm pretty sure /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is guaranteed but I could be wrong, i've never seen anyone struggle out of it in time to block or evade it.

dblplm seems to be guaranteed after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif too, maybe aoi can reverse it not sure...

I'm not sure about the rest, I haven't messed around with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif enough yet.

 

no... the dbl palm isn't guaranteed after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif... wish its was though. you can struggle out of it. Its hard as hell to do, but can be done. I remember this from doing that training exercize in 4evo, and ,sadly, the comp's struggled out on me b4.

 

You dont need to buffer crouch dash into the kuzushi DbPM or SgPm. This is because they are essentially special versions of the moves, with different properties. Thats why the stick rotation input works. In kuzushi situation DbPm isnt /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, its just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and same goes for SgPm.

However, these followups arent guaranteed after the stumbling trip. Kuzushi doublepalm after ST is propably games most difficult stagger to struggle out of, but its possible. At level most people are, its basically same as guaranteed though.

 

Yeah I actually remember struggling it in the tutorial on VF4 EVO now, I find it hard to struggle out of though. Gonna have to practice that....

Didn't notice that it was just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from Kuzushi, no wonder it rarely worked when I was doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Beligerent_feck, you are taking for granted that Evo is the same as VF5. Just because it's possible to do it in Evo, it doesn't mean it's the same in 5.

No?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

 

um i think doublepalm after ST was guaranteed in evo... but they made the throw weaker in VF5 .. or it has something to do with doublepalm being 1 frame slower in vf5, dunno.

 

NO! I thought it was guaranteed in 5... DatNyigah claimed it wasn't cause he struggled it in EVO. Manji said it wasn't guaranteed so I said I need to practice it...

I thought I remembered struggling & blocking it in the tutorial on EVO but it could have just been dblplm after a stagger ( or guard break ).

 

Even when I did the 'normal' inputs of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and whatnot, I was still getting the one palm thrust to the face move, on ST, it whiffed due to distance...

If even one person's game improved for these 'so called' shortcuts, I'm fine with it ^_^

Too bad the one palm thrust doesn't have the elbow strike after-effect /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Tonight, I'll see if I can do something about the surprise reverse throw since that throw doesn't come with a waggle icon, or if it does, I don't see it in training mode.

 

The evo tutorial was about struggling ST -> kuzushi singlepalm... and there was something fishy with the tutorial as struggling in tutorial was much easier than in actual play too.

Now I feel old! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

 

I don't remember using them for VF2, I used the 'normal' jerky method inputs and they worked with consistency that I never thought of the SF2 motions...

hmm...

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif confirmed, not only does it count as kuzushi, but the follow ups can NOT be dodged.

I believe Aoi can counter with her back turned if you buffer in the dbl/sngl palm shove but if you train your foe to block with their back turned, you can start doing throw mind games on them.

GOTTA LOVE KUZUSHI! ^_^

 

Aoi's back turned reversals are much more limited than her normal ones. I believe she can reverse the single palm, but not the double palm.

 

OMG this is great news! I thought the surprise exchange was almost useless. What follow ups are guaranteed?

 

None.

 

There are guaranteed follow ups. I was thinking about this a week ago, and thought about the frames.... 6 frames to turn around, and you are at +5. This means both pk and pp are guaranteed. Sure enough, when done on the CPU, hits every time. So with pk, it is basically akira's weakest guaranteed throw at 32 damage.

 

But Michishio implied that all the kuzushi stuff can be done, I reckon it's not guaranteed though?

 

Turning around with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will crouch under /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif but low punch will hit

Turning around with just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will guard the low punch.

So in essence, there are no guaranteed followups but opponent needs to choose.. I wouldnt recommend investing into guessing game that nets like 9 damage. Doing the throw and alternating between guard break and kuzushi Singlepalm would be something... But it doesnt change the fact there are no guaranteed followups /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Mixing up the single palm with a throw or guard break is the only thing that seems to work well for me from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif.