Super noob help!

Hey people,

Ok, I've read everything in this forum on Eileen, most notably the Eileen beginner guide. Now, whilst that has been very helpful, I still find myself overwhelmed.

I'm having two problems.
One, is that a lot of her punch strikes look very similar, so I'm having a hard time remembering which ones are the good ones, and often I find myself performing the wrong move without even realising it, because it looks so similar to the one I am wanting to do.
The second problem is that I am still not really sure what to do with her, and find myself continually just spamming /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, followed by canceling with the big somersault, or using the Warikomi splits and spamming a move from there; in short, I'm spamming a lot without really knowing why.

What I'm looking for is the real basic backbone of her most fundamental game (like working in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with Jacky), and also an explanation on her canceling (like what moves I should look to use if my move is blocked and I use cancel, what to use if it connects etc).

Lastly, I could use a tack on combo that pretty much works from all of her floats that doesn't require stance watching, so that when I land a float, I can at least take off some damage, even if it isn't much.

(and if there is anything that can be landed after the last hit of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, it would be handy to know that, too)

As always, thanks for any and all help.

 

I'll take a crack at some of these -- hopefully they will be of some help to you.

As far as her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings looking the same: I think you should have a "warikomi entry" workshop in the ole' dojo in order to differentiate between her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif string cancel initiatives. Perform these until you know them backwards and forwards:

1. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari
2. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari
3. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari (and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > wari)
4. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari
5. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari
6. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari

Basically you have to rely on constant string manipulation to keep her cancel game viable. With some daily warikomi entry practice, I believe you'll begin to notice the differences (some subtle, some not) between the different string options. The 6 above all look and "feel" different, and should serve as a solid foundation for differentiation amongst your strings -- hopefully this will eliminate the confused spammy feeling.

As for not knowing what to do with her besides /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, allow me to throw out various ideas, offensive flows, etc:

- Her basics are the same as any other VF character (i.e. forcing the mid/throw mix up) -- so /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari) should become a staple.

- Don't forget that you can go into your cancellation set immediately after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (i.e. no need for the follow up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) -- this is absolutely essential! For one thing, it is far far easier to buffer and land /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after the first hit, as the follow up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif pushes the opponent too far away. The same goes for her Zenk catch throw (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) -- far fewer "falling on your ass" animations if you execute it immediately after the first hit of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif string. Once they begin blocking low on reaction to avoid the hop-kick stagger, you can continue on with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > wari, etc.

- Speaking of the catch throw, hopefully you are using it consistently. Her Zenkuuhon/wari mix-ups are probably her strongest offensive option, with the catch throw being the center piece. Make them fear it so much that they begin ducking on reaction -- then make them eat a Zenk > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, etc.

- As the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings are highly evadeable, opponents tired of the constant pressure will begin (obviously) evading all over the place. Enter /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, leaving opponents side-turned and Eileen in BT. Upon hit, follow up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which will stagger crouchers, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs, etc, or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to sweep and set up a favorable oki situation.

Lastly, re: your floater combo question -- the only real floater I get consistently is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif which can be followed with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Eileen's real damage from combos comes from her stagger-into-crumple combos (i.e. after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sabaki). You can follow up stomach crumples on any character with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Check out Myke's awesome new Black Book Combo post too! Lots of good stuff there...

So basically the fundamentals of her game are: 1. high pressure, constant string manipulation; 2. a varied application of warikomi mix ups; 3. punishing would-be evaders, tired of eating Eileen's never ending strings, with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > back turn mix ups. I feel like a lot of the confusion stems from unfamiliarity with all her string options. With some rote memorization/muscle memory, they'll become second nature -- then let the pressure mix ups begin.

Hope this was helpful.
- Sweep!

PS - Watch Gorgeous' Eileen via YouTube and try to apply some of his patterns, flows, etc. The above advice is constructed at least partially through my hero worship of that man! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Bloody hell man, that was awesome!

Thanks so much for this; it really simplifies things for me and gives me something to work for as I try to familiarise myself with her moves and strings.

I'll put the practice in as soon as my brother gets up.

Oh, and bonus points for having John Crease in your avatar!

 

I always forget about # 4 and 6 wari options.

 

Ok, another simple question, but one I cannot seem to find the answer to: What can you do after the third hit in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif lands?

It seems to generate a float, but I don't know how to follow up on it.

Also, I know that this is probably covered by simply looking at her moves, but a bit of guidance is always helpful, so I was looking for some advice on what to do if my opponent keeps trying to attack me in the middle of my strings, specifically after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has been guarded. I've tried using a lot of her tools, but I can't seem to generate a flowchart in that will deal with this. Obviously I'm just being crap, so advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance; you guys make learning to play so much easier.


Oh, and Sweep, your advice has been fantastic so far; thanks again.

 

first I recommend that you hit check /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif before you even do the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif because it'll mess with someone's head if do the following afterward. Follow up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif if they keep blocking the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif it'll stagger then you can combo. You can also use her hop back /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to get some distance. Her most powerful option though is her wari throw that sweep told you about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Once they get used to ducking the throw attempt start throwing out /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif OM P rinse repeat.

I don't really use her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif string all that much personally so I don't know sry.

Sidenote:

I like using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, (wari mixups like before) also.

 

Ah, I never thought about hit checking, though it makes sense, because the catch throw from Zenk is actually lands after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif if the second punch is delayed (if you do it fastest timing, she falls to the ground, even if they're guarding).

What about the combo options after the last hit?

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will float on CH. Your options after the float are:

1./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
(Works on Eileen and Aoi, closed stance for Kage and Goh)

2./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
(Works on heavyweights)

3./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
(Works on Vanessa in open)

The above info came from Myke's Black Book translation.

 

Thanks, Sweep; you're the best (around, nothing's gonna ever keep you down).

 

lol! KK reference! +1

 

More noob nonsense from me.

So, I've seen many recommendations for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, which say that after it is guarded or it hits, use OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. This makes sense, as I'm at +1, so I have the ability to beat instant attacks.

I have three questions:

1) If my opponent delays for one frame before attacking, will my OM still work?

2) If my opponent delays for two or more frames before attacking, will my OM still work?

3) Why is it recommended to use OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and not Om /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif? Is there something that makes OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif not work, or are people just afraid of it's counterability?


As always, thanks for the help.

 

Ahem, anyone?

 

Oh sorry i missed the e-mail notification. So it's just because OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif i just faster. OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif takes a hell've a lot longer. The other questions you had I don't have the answer to.

 

The questions HAVE been answered. Just don't do it. Don't try it. He's suggesting that you go for something else entirely, because OM'ing in those situations is too much of a high-risk, low-reward choice.

 

Thanks, Myke; that's most helpful.

I am, however, finding that, even from an advantage situation, when I do OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I still get hit with my opponent's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, and I don't think it's being delayed. As a result, I'm kind of put off using OM, which is annoying because I know that it can be a great tool...

 

Dude stop flaming those are needless comments. If you want to go vent go to the doa forums. The time of the posts were just 8 min apart by time I was done writing he posted already so get off it.

All I can say is look at some vids with eileen using OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. I do know what you're talking about though i've been hit out of the OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif sometimes too but I've never seen anyone from jap. get hit out, I'm guessing we must be off on our timing.

 

It wasn't flaming, Tricky. If you can't take that, then get off internet forums. If I seemed rude, sorry. Whining; taking it too far is unnecessary and loses the respect I had for you coming in here. I'll forget that post for now.

Back to the subject at hand- OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif isn't just something to throw out, it's a match control move. This is something you see in many fighters: something that, when you have the upper hand in the match (not just priority- when you are shutting the other player down and seem to have control of the screen at the time), you throw out with the knowledge of the attack they're doing (including recovery).

Of course, it can be thrown in effectively at any opportune time, but this is for strategic purposes.

 

I've been on these forums a lot longer than you have I know how it works people are very polite just be careful on your phrasing. Internet has no tone so things can be misunderstood.

I don't quite see the gain in using an OM instead of another attack in a given situation though. It still seems at least for eileen to be an unimportant tactic. If you're doing 236 P+K, K you're already at advantage/control. I'm not arguing for or against it. Nobody has really given a concrete reason why you'd use it over another move that's safer.

 

OM P is pretty safe, and it can evade pretty much any opponent attack except low circulars (yes, with good timing it can evade mid and high circulars). So I think it can be used to completely shut down opponents who try to abare from disadvantage. It gives nice + on hit too. OM K on the other hand is unsafe imo, despite the high damage comboes it gives on side counterhit, and I havent found much use for it yet.