SVGL League Play

Discussion in 'Local Scene' started by feixaq, Nov 18, 2001.

  1. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Okay guys, some of you SVGL regulars may have seen the league charts at <a target="_blank" href=http://www.feixaq.com/bavf>bay area vf</a> and might be wondering how exactly this works. I was thinking of the following (let me know if you think this is equitable, or if there is some other way).

    Firstly, we need to define "league play" days... maybe Wednesday night, Friday night, and Saturday afternoon/evening. Also, we should make it such that there a minimum number of players need to be present in order to have the day's matches count towards league standings... 6 seems to be a good minimum(?).

    Once we have the requisite 6 on a league play night, use the tournament chart to record wins/losses. Please be sure to record round differentials for each winner (+3 is 3-0, +2 is 3-1, +1 is 3-2). Rank everybody according to (1) total number of wins, (2) total round differentials (3) head-to-head performance. (i.e. if ABC and XYZ both got 5 wins out of 7 in an 8-man league, and both got the same round differential, but ABC beat XYZ in their matchup, then ABC is ranked higher than XYZ for that evening).

    Scoring: we could go about using a Chess ELO system... but that's relatively complicated, and I have enough to do at work as it is and don't necessarily want to number crunch rankings all the time. I was thinking along the lines of "nth place gets 1 point... n-1th place gets 2 points... 1st place get n points". This encourages people to at least show up during league nights (even if you're ranked last, you get one point, versus not showing up and getting zero).

    Ultimately, this is not necessarily the best guage of individual skill, but it does give a first approximation based on amount of playing time, participation, and head to head combat performance. Lastly, the playoff tournaments are where it's at, league rankings is a poor man's substitute for VF.net...

    Let me know what you think, guys...
     
  2. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    i think any day with the minimum amount of people (ones who want to participate in entering with initials and name) should be a league day, just cuz of everyone's different schedules and stuff. (who is going to be at svgl on thanksgiving??? i don't think i would....)
     
  3. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    i might head down on tuesday, friday and/or saturday this week, actually. yeah, maybe we don't need to formalize wednesday, friday and saturday... as long as there are 6 players, and all are willing to play through the matches, i think it should be fine.

    anybody else have any comments?
     
  4. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    hehe i also think we need to make it lesser people..... how about 5? im there like almost every night and i see barely 3 or 4 of them there....
     
  5. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    i guess, but then, that's how you can ensure that it's not the same 5 people playing *every* day, otherwise the rankings would be all out of whack =P
     
  6. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    ahhhh i didn't think of that... maybe there should be some points rewarded for beating someone higher in rank and points awarded for maintaining number 1........ just a thought.
     
  7. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    possibly. but then it would be a game-by-game calculation, not a ranking that is determined at the end of the night when everyone has played everyone else.

    the problem with the idea of getting more points when beating a higher ranked person is this... it's all very easy if it's logged on the fly (a la vf.net).. but... are you going to want to sit there and calculate each match as it's played? e.g. #1, #5, #6, #8 play. #1 beats #8. #1 gets a few points, #8 loses a few. then #1 beats #5, gets more points than in the match vs #8. #5, meanwhile, drops to #6. now #8 beats #6 (which was formerly #5). #8 gets fewer points than if he played #5 earlier... but by how much?

    this is all calculable... heck, a lot of online games utilize the ELO formula (e.g. RTS games), but again, unless we have a proper, runtime system of logging, just making everyone play each other on a given night and ranking the results at the end of the day is *much* easier than trying to give out specific bonus points for maintaining #1, or winning a playoff bracket, or beating a higher ranked player, etc...

    actually, the virtuaproject guys up in toronto are attempting this...
    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Winning Expectancy is calculated as follows:


    We = (1+10^-(R-Ri)/400))^-1
    R = players rating points
    Ri = ith opponent's rating points


    Each player is also assigned a Rating Coefficient (K). This coefficient is used to determine the maximum number of rating points that can be won or lost in any one game. K scales according to the number of matches played by the player as well as their rating points.

    K is calculated as follows:


    K = 800/(N'+m)
    Where N' is the player's Effective Games.
    N' = min(N,N*)
    N = total number of matches played up until the beginning of the Fight Session from previous Fight Sessions.
    N=m if it's the player's first Fight Session. Where m is the number of matches played in the Fight Session.


    N* (if R<2200) = 50 / (1+(2200-Ro)^2/10000)^(0.5)

    N* (if R>2200) = 50
    Getting complicated huh? Well, it's not that bad, really. And we're almost done. Hang in there. :)

    The rating coefficient, K, is developed by the above situations. This enables new players to move quickly towards a rating that reflects their true ability level, while adding a level of stability to the ratings of more experienced players.

    From both the Winning Expectancy and the Rating Coefficient, the players rating following a Fight Session is calculated accordingly:


    R = Ro + K(S-E) + Bonus
    Where Ro is the players rating before the Fight Session.
    S is the number of matches won during the Fight Session.
    E is the sum of all the Winning Expectancies encountered in the Fight Session.

    Lastly, there is a bonus added on to the R calculation for players who are playing within a field far above their ranking. This applies to people who join Rumble Cherry Challenge mid way through a season and there are players who have already increased their ratings.


    Bonus = max(0, B)


    Where B = K(S-E) - 10*m^(0.5)


    <hr></blockquote>
    but... like i mentioned before, i don't particularly fancy having to do all these calculations in the little spare time i have...
     
  8. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    ohhhhh i see........
     
  9. segaduck

    segaduck Well-Known Member

    Terrible amount of calculation!!! I don't think anyone in SVGL will like to kill his time by this. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Let's just use the rules you mentioned early.
     
  10. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    It's actually not as complicated as you think it is. The best part about it is that you *can* take into account people winning against higher ranked players without doing it 'on the fly' throughout the evening. It's a very robust system, and extremely fair and accurate to the players skill levels.

    cheers,
     
  11. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    I think a ladder system will work better since you can't get people to turn up regularly.

    As for the caculation aspect, write a simple program to caculate the scores! :p
    Given the proper formulas and stuff I think I can crank up a program to do it.
     
  12. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    ok i think we should only have league play on the same day of the tournaments. it seems the only time we bother to record something.
     
  13. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Well, I think from now till Christmas, most people are out and about... so we might have to wait till January anyway...
     
  14. Collette

    Collette Active Member

    Starting an amateur league at work; would appreciate resources for "keeping it real"... rules, ladder structure, customs etc. We'll take what we need, of course, but I was curious what the rules and procedures are like in the "real" tourneys. Thanks anyone with time to send a link or point the way.
     

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