Tactics and Styles

I have one specific question. I keep seeing the terms ABARE and MORAL. The wiki doesn't cover these terms. What do they specifically mean, and are there any other like terms that I and others should know off the bat?

I also want to leave this thread open for discussion about different playstyles for different characters. Who do you use, how do you play and does it work (and to what extent)?

I ask this because every time I play, I KNOW that I always forget to keep something in mind while I play. I suck with memory and reaction when I play, so I have to constantly keep remembering the options from option select. This may seem stupid, but I'm not even sure I know all the options for option select. Hard to keep everything at my fingertips at once. Character experimentation and this are quite a handful, but I'm going VERY slowly.

 

This isn't the final answer... just what I've understood of the term, but I think these terms were talked about a long time ago during VF4 Evo days (when I wasn't around)... so this is what I gathered of it...

MORAL style of play, if I understood correctly, is a sort of "orthodox" way of playing VF by using what would be the safest (defensive) option when you are put on the defensive. What is perfectly moral might have changed in VF5, but I think an example would be:
-using the appropriate fuzzy guard for disadvantages no worse than -6
-using ETEG (Evade Throw Escape Guard) for -7 ~ -10
-Overall using good defensive technique when you are on the defensive

ABARE style of play, if I understood it correctly, is playing an aggressive (attacking) style of defense. The prime example would be attacking when you are at a disadvantage, especially if you are expecting a throw coming your way.
-This changes a bit in VF5 because of clashing. If you are expecting the opponent to throw you, you would use unclashable moves.
-I have no idea if this style of play implies that you would ever purposely clash, but I doubt there's any direct implication.

Someone please correct me wherever I get this wrong.

-Chanchai

 

I think you made it a bit too complex...

Moral is simply adhering strictly to the rule that you defend when in disadvantage, and only attack when in advantage. Doesn't really mean you try to play safe or whatever.

Abare is simply a style where you do not adhere to said rule, and you attack instead of defend when in disadvantage.

 

Option Selects

You also asked about option selects... Here are a few of what's out there:

Note: As always, corrections welcome and encouraged (it's a forum, it's good to discuss, correcting is a form of discussing).

Fuzzy Guard - A defensive technique that aims to defend against both mid attacks and throws.
* Generally, if your disadvantage is no worse than -5, you can hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif briefly and then return the stick to neutral (while holding /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif)--the aim is to block low just long enough to crouch under the throw, but the moment the throw would miss you, you'll stand back up and block high to defend against a mid attack. This is meant to nullify your opponents mid/throw guessing game. Easy at -5, trickier at smaller disadvantages.
* If your disadvantage is -6, you can crouch dash fuzzy guard /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif, (neutral) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. You will crouch under a throw attempt, but block high for followup mids. This technique will get hit by most low punches, immediate high punch, and low attacks.
* Delayed throws will also beat the typical fuzzy guard.

Good times to buffer throw escape
There are good, common, times to buffer a throw escape. Furthermore, you can quickly let go of Punch after you input the throw escape so that it becomes a Throw Escape Guard
* When you whiff an attack
* Whenever you do a reversal of some sort (you might as well, you're stuck in the animation)
* If the opponent blocks an attack that has guaranteed punishment (if they block one of your big attacks that leave you wide open)
* When you whiff a throw
* When you evade

Evade Throw Escape Guard (ETEG)
Mentioned in the above... It's a common technique at -7 or worse where you buffer in an evade and a throw escape and then hold G.
* If your opponent does a dodgeable attack (and you evade in the correct direction) you get an evade.
* if your opponent does a throw (that you inputted the escape for), you will escape the throw.
* if your opponent does nothing, you will do a weak sidestep and then guard.
* This technique will get taken out by half-circular attacks if you evaded in the wrong direction.
* This technique gets taken out by full circular attacks.
* (Properly executed) Delayed attacks will also punish this technique if the opponent hits you while you do the weak sidestep.

Evade Crouch Dash (ECD)
By buffering a crouch dash right after an evade, you will cancel a bad sidestep with a crouch dash (a good evade should just be a good evade, no crouch dash). This will reduce your vulnerability period during the weak sidestep and it's a basic part of fancy stepping.

Attack Throw Escape
***Take this one with a microscopic grain of salt***
I don't know what the implications of this are in VF5 and whether the buffer really allows this to work... I assume it still works... But if your opponent blocks a big attack of yours that guarantees them an attack, this is a time when you can use this option select for the helluvit. You buffer an attack, followed by a throw escape.
* If they do the guaranteed attack (like they should), you'll get hit, but there was nothing you could do about that anyways.
* If they throw you, you'll have at least entered a throw escape.
* If they are slow to act or do some really slow attack for some reason, you'll have a chance of hitting them with your attack.
* If they delay throw, you might clash (unless you did an unclashable attack).

-Chanchai

p.s. For fun VF4 Evo reading, I like Hiro's VF4 Evolution System Memorandum. However, the numbers no longer apply and I am sure that K(G) has changed since then... It's just fun reading and gives you an idea of how to look at VF in general--but it's not a VF5 Doc, so remember that.

 

Thanks, saw the tree instead of the forest then Common for me though. Thanks Srider!

 

I didn't know about this technique since they didn't have it in the vf4evo training but I'm glad I know it now. I'll try to use that when I think my evade might fail but I think they're not going to throw me. Can you ECDTE?

 

ECD isn't as great as it sounds btw... I don't know the numbers but there are a number of frames before the cancel occurs and more frames before you actually crouch. I forgot to mention this and it's important to note. ECD just reduces that vulnerability, it doesn't eliminate it.

As far as I know, you'll still get thrown if you do ECD, but it will reduce that vulnerability period a bit.

But hey, every frame counts ^_^

The thing about ETEG is that you don't get a throw whiff animation if you do it correctly because you are using the vulnerability period to prevent you from actually throwing (that's why you hold G).

ex. ETEG
(evade) --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif --> holding /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif by itself.
You let go of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after you input the throw escape so that you block. The blocking happens (instead of a throw whiff) because it was buffered this way during that poor sidestep.

I don't think there's much point in trying ECDTE (and it won't result in what you're wanting it to do actually, an immediate throw would get you and a crouch dash would handle a way delayed throw--WAY delayed). I think it would also end up doing ECD --> Throw, and a throw whiff will occur.

-Chanchai

 

It doesnt have to be crouchdash anymore... In VF5 you can cancel evade with forward dash, backward dash, forward and backward crouchdash as well. In VF4 and evo only forward crouchdash canceled the evade so this is reminiscent from that period. In fact I think a new technique which should be trained is evade - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. This is fastest way to guard after canceling an evade. (there is a delay before you can guard after inputting a dash or cdash, and its longer in crouchdash)

 

much thanks I'll work on that def. technique.

 

It does now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:glossary#a
http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:glossary#m

 

Re: Option Selects

Nice post chanchai.

It's good to be reminded about these techniques and it's nice that they're in one place ^^^.

The truth is.. well, I speak for myself but I'm sure others feel the same way. We know the techniques but we don't employ them all. It takes a lot of discipline, concentration and practice to put these into practice in one's game.

The way I play is mostly based on instinct and reflexes. The reflexes side of it becomes harder online. I know the fundamentals of VF and I just try to be aware of what moves I do that can be punished on block. I'll still use them if there's a good reward if it connects. Mix your attacks. The most important mix up in my opinion is mid attack and throw.

I totally understand you when you say it's hard to load into memory (brain) options for all different sutuations you're in and even just having all your chars important moves at the ready. So easy to forget them and when you start losing you become even more narrow minded.

 

Re: Option Selects

Good stuff Chanchai

Imma go see if I can set the cpu to block an attack of mine and then throw to practise ETEG. You make it sound doable, I always thought it was impposible for someone like me lol.