Taka in tb...

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Chanchai, Dec 7, 2000.

  1. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Guess my experimentation is venturing towards Taka lately... at least to get a feel for him.

    My understanding is that he's drastically changed in tb over ob. Guess I can't rely on faqs or notes as much/images/icons/tongue.gif However, practice always prevails anyways, and experimentation as well. Though I'd like to know what a standard tb Taka tends to do. If anyone's interested, please post/images/icons/smile.gif

    A question on Taka's hit throws: "Do these only work when the oppnoent is blocking?" I have a pain doing these, for who knows what reasons... It's either I'm doing it wrong, doing it at the wrong time, or I've misunderstood the concept of Taka's hit throws completely. If the opponent blocks, I rush out with the throw somewhat quickly... Is that it?

    My understanding is that KBCat, Rich, Adam, and Jesse have used Taka quite a bit, but I'm sure there are quite a few others as well (I'm pretty sure Godeater had at least a Taka period). Anyways, I guess I'm looking for pointers with Taka, I don't know much of a starting point, so I'm just messing around and figuring out how I should use Taka.

    There you have my "not-so-upfront" lost in thought way of asking for help on Taka in tb/dc/images/icons/smile.gif

    -Chanchai
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm starting to feel more comfortable with Taka. Decided to drag out the ol' counterlist and learn from that.

    However, I'm mostly messing with Kurai Nage (eating an attack). I think I recall Rich telling me that anytime Taka is countered and isn't knocked down as a result, he gets a free throw. So I've been working on that... Especially since my Taka gets countered a lot anyways. For starters, it totally made my Taka much stronger taking a ton of throw opportunities like that.

    I'm also looking at Sumeragi's list (which I believe was a translation from the tb mook--I think it says it on there too) which is located in the "War" section. Should also be put on the Taka section imo since it's focused on Taka.

    Anyways, I'd still love to hear more Taka specific stuff.

    -Chanchai
     
  3. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    ack no..far from anytime.

    i'll get the full, correct list to you later.

    --
    "Plop."
     
  4. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Thanks! It's really helpful and I greatly appreciate it/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  5. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    When you say taka's "hit throws" do you mean his throws after the elbow or upper, or the kurai nage?

    If you're trying the former, the move has to hit the oppt., then there is a slight pause before you do the throw. I believe the oppt. can struggle out of this with a P or low P.

    If you've ever seen Kurita play, you'll notice that one of his favorite techniques was to hit with the upper, then do the "head rocker" instead of the choke. You can also just go for another throw after the elbow as well.

    spotlite
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Thanks for addressing my question on hit throws. Yeah, by hit throws I was referring to Taka's f+P,f,b+P+G and d/f+P, f+P+G.

    I'll have to dig my CD-Rs and find that Taka clip again... I'd like to see more Kurita clips/videos myself. I might soon.

    What tournaments did Kurita participate in that are available on video in Japan?

    I guess once I'm done with tomorrow's Final (my last one thank goodness), I'll see if I can find anything good at NYG2 regarding Taka. I believe it was mostly Adam, Jesse, and Emil that were playing Taka at NYG2.
     
  7. sta783

    sta783 Well-Known Member

    I believe the oppt. can struggle out of this with a P or low P.

    If elbow hits as normal, pretty much ANY move will get you out of the followup throw. If elbow hit MC, throw is 95% guaranteed, save a few instances where extreme terraina (or else) are present.

    d/f+P, > f+PG is NEVER guaranteed.

    If you've ever seen Kurita play, you'll notice that one of his favorite techniques was to hit with the upper, then do the "head rocker" instead of the choke.

    I believe the sequence was more like d/f+P, P, throw. P after d/f+P automatically comes out as F+P. When F+P hits on MC, throw is guaranteed. P on MC does NOT guarantee a throw. P after low-P also comes out as F+P. Useful but strange.

    You can also just go for another throw after the elbow as well.

    Why bother? f,b+PG after elbow cannot be escaped and does whopping 80pts of damage. Most of all, f,b+PG is guaranteed after MC elbow, while the other regular throws are not.

    Basically f,f+P and f,b+PG is (almost) all you need after the MC elbow (or even normal hit, as f,f+P, though slow, has higher priority over many moves).
     
  8. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Taka is completely different in TB. Poor Debu!
    I still can't believe they allowed him a high pounce
    (that should be GAME OVER in my book). That and I
    loved the idea that he didn't fall over at the drop
    of a hat like he does now. punk.

    My favorite Taka's are Clem, Johnson and Rich (not in
    any particular order). Pure pressure beasts and they
    maximize everything Taka has to offer. I did begin
    to play the big guy but not with any frequency. My
    tactics are poor at best so I cannot comment with
    any degree of accuracy.

    ahem. I will talk about hit throws for a second or
    two though. This is through conversations with
    Clem and from being on the painful end of the Taka
    stick. First, Taka's f+P hit throw is disgusting. Soooo
    much damage! The things you need to remember if you're
    having trouble getting them are:

    1. You might be rushing the input. The window is
    pretty big all things considered. I don't
    profess to know frame rates but I have done it
    and it is certainly not fast.
    2. The timing changes depending on the hit. natural,
    counter, stagger...all of these have different
    timings. you know you are playing a skilled
    observational player when they can get the hit
    throw on you regardless of the circumstance.

    Kurai Nage: okay so I have a little more to say.
    Mr. Bungle is right when he says the circumstances
    are limited. You need to be executing specific
    moves at the time you are hit and then you gots
    to be fast. Rich will provide the list but the ones
    I remember are: P, f+P+K and P+K+G. I believe that
    you need to get hit by specific moves as well.


    GE
    brumm,brumm,brumm,...............Taka's just waiting for a sandwhich!
     
  9. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    sta783 (hehe), thanks a lot for the info. It was most useful and I don't know where else I would have found it unless I harassed somebody to translate the tb or DC (probably just tb) mook for me. Always love your updates man.

    Well, I've been playing around a lot with f+P+K. Initially because of the Kurai Nage among other things, but later because of the options and followups it has. Based on old faqs and what not, it seems to have been a great setup move (flowchart starter I guess) in ob. Well, again, with Taka I have no clue... but I guess that's where the ob-->tb partial list comes in handy.

    I'm also using f, f+P quite a bit. For reasons including what you mentioned (after I read your post I mean) as well as seeing it as a good counter on the tb Mook counter list. BTW, the list was translated to English by GLC and anyone can get a copy of it at http://www.gamefaqs.com (for those that don't know where Gamefaqs is /images/icons/tongue.gif).

    I remembering hearing somewhere (I believe it was KBCat back in March and June, and then possibly later in NYG2 as well from Adam) that Taka's df+P and df, df+P are good moves. Can anyone expand on those for me? You don't have to spell it out, but I guess essentially that is what I'm asking (while trying hard to not look like a bastard).

    I've also heard from Rich that Taka's running P+K is good. And also, as he mentioned to me, you don't have to be that far to have Taka running, you can run right out of the round opening.

    For all the old ob Taka players, though they may not be playing as much as they used to, I sorta hope the extreme changes of Taka in tb didn't discourage them so much. After seeing the efforts of the Taka faq writers and all, but a lot of the info in those have been great, and were always excellent to begin with anyways. Just that Taka's made quite some changes.

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    I still can't believe they allowed him a high pounce
    (that should be GAME OVER in my book).

    <hr></blockquote>


    LOL!!! Well... picturing Adam's immitations of Taka... You think it's the wrong character saying the right thing at the moment... "SHHHHIIIEEETTTT!!!!"

    GE, got any good Johnson matches on tape? Speaking of which, any plans for another San-ten clip?/images/icons/smile.gif

    Regarding the hit-throw issue... I finally figured them out... df+P, f+P+G is not too hard... if your opponent doesn't smash you before you do the throw... But it's funny, you cand do df+P and then just mash f+P+G like crazy. Of course, you can't do that with f+P, f, b+P+G. That one is still a tough cookie for me, for the reasons you mentioned... I ended up having to really rely on looking at animations to pull it off, or try memorizing the timing, but different situations felt very different... It's sort of frustrating, until you see the animation, but even then it's frustrating. I swear, you have like 2 frames of a window to get that throw in!!! arggh (I'm acknowledging that I am heavily exagerating, but it's been frustrating). The 80 points of damage (altogether, an MC elbow hit-throw is what, 108 points?! sheesh) is so worth the effort though.

    For the Kurai Nage list, Rich sent it to me and I read it IMMEDIATELY. Great stuff/images/icons/smile.gif After reading it, it's confirmed to me that the list posted by Sumeragi has some errors in it, or I think... Maybe only one... but it has Jacky's sidekick listed in there, but Jacky's sidekick knocks down on counter if I recall. However, that list was also great and I appreciate it being there this whole time/images/icons/smile.gif. Rich, thanks a lot for the list. I have it on my personal website, but I'm not in the mood to put up the URL (it's just a directory structure of files, and some of them are personal conversations that I should take off of there or grab permission before I let anyone go onto the site).

    Anyways... 3 hours to my final Final/images/icons/smile.gif

    -Chanchai
     
  10. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Re: Taka in tb (johnson)

    I *did* but I'm not sure I do anymore. After I cap
    stuff I tend to treat the source tapes as expendable.
    I know that KBCat had one of the tapes at the first
    little mini gathering we had but I cannot remember if
    Johnson was on it. I'll look about and if I can find
    some Johnson stuff I'll cap it.

    GE
     
  11. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: Taka in tb (johnson)

    *Great!* Thanks! To let you know, I did enjoy watching his Taka in the San-Ten clip. Hehehe, show him getting killed in the first half or 2/3 of the clip, then show some of his good stuff at the end, eh? hehe
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A note to chanchai:

    Well, for the hit throw, I usually do some "simplier" method to get the hit throw success.

    for the d/f+p, choke throw, the timing to enter the f+P+G is like you enter one more stick command before you enter it(that is why you need not to rush it) though some counter should be made by the d/f+P.

    due to the above, i usually do d/f+P and then a f,f motion. If the d/f+P get an MC, it will float the opp and u then enter a P to get the f,f+p,p,p then a small stomp to get a "throw-like" damage. if turns out it did not throw, you will enter a P+G to get the throw. there will be 50% u will get the choke throw, or more specify, is it will occur when the situation is an mC; other's will become his bear-hunging throw(since the f,f motion get him in range).

    I think why Kurita use Taka's headrocker after doing the d/f+P motion is due to above reason since the ending command of headrocker is also f+P+G.

    For the elbow-hit throw, I got it even when it stagger the opp. as ?? said, the hit throw will have different time to enter the command. anyway, practise makes perfect, just try more time and u can get it.

    Remember that, in DC version, all commmand and situation goes MUCH faster than the arcade version, I can get Taka's hit throw by simply counting "one, two" then enter the f,b+P+G, however I need to enter it right away after the elbow hit in the DC.

    btw, for those interest in doing hit throw, some one in the pass had stated the way to do Wolf's neck throw. The timing is by doing one more command motion too: ie. u/f+P, (f+E), f+P+G. you can get it more frequently by doing this to see this rare and awsome throw.

    Hope this can help.

    Hugo
     
  13. J6Commander

    J6Commander Well-Known Member

    Re: Taka in tb (johnson)

    Hello folks .. I see my name poping up .. I guess I gotta make a post. :p

    Taka is really fun to play with .. here are my 2 cents about his hit-throw (the f+p one):
    It is guaranteed after MC .. u have to finish inputting the throw motions right *before* your opponent recovers definitely not after .. but u can always do it if your opponent isnt doing anything .. :)
    (info read from gamest tb white book .. pls correct me if i am wrong)

    I found that it is really easy to do on the dreamcast .. here is my way to do it:
    f+P --> always buffer forward after --> see a MC? --> if yes, do b+p+g



    -=Plasma=-
     
  14. sta783

    sta783 Well-Known Member

    For the elbow-hit throw, I got it even when it stagger the opp. as ?? said, the hit throw will have different time to enter the command. anyway, practise makes perfect, just try more time and u can get it.

    That's because recovery time from the stagger varies. Input timing for the throw changes depending on how soon the other recovers from the stagger. Thus, against those who never struggle or always struggle at the same rate, elbow(stagger) > f,b+PG is a viable option.
     
  15. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Been playing more Taka lately... At least for myself, everyone's advice and 2 cents for Taka has been helping!

    I finally get what some people were talking about regarding Taka's elbow hit-throw. I'm referring to nailing with the elbow, dashing in and doing the hit-throw command... I guess my lack of experience with hit-throws had me thinking that the throw had to be the only thing (just about) inputted after the elbow, so I never bothered with dashing in and doing the throw.

    Anyways, regarding that, does such a technique (dashing in before the throw) work in the elbow MC case? Or does it reduce the chance of the guaranteed hit-throw?

    Also, is there an actual term/jargon for moves that can have their recovery interrupted (or seemingly interrupted) by inputting a throw command (the attacker doing this I mean)?

    I guess examples of this would be Taka's running P K and f P K. Actually, a better question is: Are these moves just fast at recovering despite their animation? Is that really what's going on? Things like Jacky doing a shot-knee followed by throw looks like he's interrupting his recovery, however, I suspect that he just recovered quickly and did a throw (which would be like Taka's f P K or Shun's b, f P).

    Are these conditions of throwing being a way to quickly cutoff certain recoveries, or maybe recoveries that are fast, but just happen to have an animation that appears otherwise?

    -Chanchai

    Additional Mention (Added in after original post):
    Though it's not exactly what I asked for, it's a nice read and very relavent... Rich, just noticed that you had an article on your site on "Ticking" in VF3/images/icons/smile.gif

    P.S. On a similar note: "Stupid instructions for stupid fads!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 1/11/01 02:30 AM.</FONT></P>
     

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