Taka tips against speed/aggression?

I always get mowed down by speedster agression abare. What do the Taka Elite Corps do in these situations? I try the wait 'n poke but find it hard to even sneak in 2P sometimes. Frustrating as hell.

 

Block, take advantage and start offense. Read your opponent's habits. At small disadvantages 66PP is a good panic move against abare prone opponents.

 

Don't forget about 6P, which is +7 CH. 66P is nice but I still prefer 6P except if you can wall hit or ring out. I really feel like CH 6P has more damage potential. And an evaded 6P is safe on whiff.
Against really happy abare opponents, with a little bit of conditioning (IE evade into 4P side mix up/P blockstun/throw), evade into CH 3P+K is really good.

You have few good moves to prevent abare with Taka :

abare when you hit NH : 2P, 6P, 66P, 4P+K, 6P+K are your best options. In this order, depending on your adv. on hit.
PS : Supposedly you could HCB P for a i16 answer against abare but I wouldn't advise that even though it can have some pretty weird tracking with HCB PP against evade.
abare when you block or hit CH : 6P, 66P, 4P+K, 6P+K, 1P+K, 4P, 1P+K, 6K. In this order, dependending on your adv. after you blocked or your CH hit.

You only have 3 or 4 moves that are +4 on NH hit with Taka, so you're kinda limited with your anti abare options for NH stuff.
2P/6P are the safest and will effectively prevent abare since they're safe against evade.

With a CH adv. or after blocked move, most of the time, you will be able to open up your game since your opponent will be at -5 or less.
This is where you'll really be able to get some nice damage with throws or CH launcher.

>>> At +6 or more (and don't forget : +7 with CH 6P), your mix up game becomes really scary :
4P+K cannot be interrupted (except against i10 moves but ... I only know of DS Vane 3P).
4P cannot be interrupted (except against i11 moves and 2P but 4P+K takes care of that) and will eat evade to stomach. Nice way to get a free CH 4PP into Tachi'ai mix up btw.
PPS : I didn't check but there's an advantage where your opponent won't be able to Evade 33G to stomach to avoid 4P. It's either +6 or +7 IIRC.
Throw will eat evade and standing block.
1P+K will eat evade to the back and standing block (and eat high moves like i10/i11 stuff).

So... yes, to effectively stuff abare you kinda need to learn your frame data

 

Actually, no 10f move will beat 4P+K at -6 because it does 15 damage vs. normal punches that are around 10 or 11 damage, so a 12f P or 2P will lose to 4P+K every time from that situation. Same thing with 4P.

As for 6P vs. 66PP, I see it like this; 6P is -5 on block and -1 on normal hit, where as 66PP is -8 on block but gives a KND on hit with the possibility of hitting a wall or ring outing your opponent, at the very least you are pushing them toward a wall or the edge, so I think the reward from 66PP is more lucrative as both moves are above Taka's fuzzy limit on block anyway so you're forced into a nitaku no matter what, it's a better option to do 66PP. I'll admit that I do still use 6P as it's more simple to do than 66PP when you're in a tight spot.

 

Don't always start your offense with PPP It's just not a good idea. I'm going to low-punch you out of it every time. Also the advice they gave was worth absorbing. lol

That's just a little bit of advice from my personal experience playing you.

 

Cheers guys, I never really use 6P so I'll head to dojo pronto and check that and the other options out.

 

Thanks for your input Truewiseman, I was going for PPP to Tachi'ai mixup (just started to experiment with Tachi'ai) but I guess you saw right through it...

 

PPP and PP into tachi is a bad idea both on hit and block, you're at a disadvantage and can be 2P'd or worse out of everything. However you can yomi a little bit with PP6P and PP~tachi with a little conditioning, sometimes you delay PP6P and sometimes you do PP~tachi when you think your opponent is going to freeze in anticipation of PP6P, it's silly but has worked at times.

 

Indeed it's a really bad idea to go for PP/PPP Tach'ai mix up.
Check the thread I made about Tachi'ai stance study, it explains why.

Don't forget about P being blockstun +2 and +5 on hit NH !! Most of the time, the best thing to do is throwing a single P. P strings are situational.
You can get tons of CH 6P with P blocked, and you can't eat 2P with 66P after a blocked P. That's probably why I prefer 6P so much to 66P.

 

PPP is effective though, for aggressive players. It's Taka's fastest move. In my experience it really surprises people and makes them pause and/or block. There are a lot of options after P, PP and PPP for Taka, a throw, a combo, a string, Tachi'ai etc. Aside from PPP, all P moves of Taka are slow. Even his E.Honda slaps (Half circle back ) starts too slow and is dock-able in the middle. 1PP seems promising but still starts slow. Basically aside from PPP, there is no other Taka move available to push back aggressors.
I'm really getting old. I forgot Taka's "especial" 2p, 2p2p set.

 

Actually hcbP jails on block so they can't duck unless you do hcbPP and so on, but you can play another silly mind game with this move by doing either hcbPP or hcbPP+K. PPP is not a very good string and I fail to see how people that know Taka will freeze against it when anything that string leads to, Tachi'ai or PPPP..., can be 2P'd freely or worse, even on hit it leaves Taka at an disadvantage, so again if your opponent knows your character, they can just attack freely after, I'd save that string for a -12 punish that'll surely kill your opponent. 1PP is also 14f, which isn't slow at all, but this move isn't very usable as a poke or anything because it's -13 on block and -1 on hit, even though the last hit is s.mid which breaks crouching guard.

 

For people who knows Taka, they tend to get surprised that someone is dumb enough to keep using PPP. They get caught off guard by the seeming stupidity (just don't complete the string). Again where talking about aggressors here, situations when the other player is the one initiating the exchange. The aim of the random PP,PPP,PPPP is to make them pause and think about their barrage. In VF4, evade was very effective but now with all this tracking moves... I guess the real question is how can Taka dictate the phase of the match? What are the effective pokes and mixups? What is the safest move to use to start something when you see openings. These are basic questions but I feel Taka is unique and with him addressing these questions is beyond basics.

BTW, thanks Modelah for starting this thread. I see you've hit the same wall as I did.
Thank you YOMI, Maxou and Chefboy_OB for the tips.

 

Aside from not being able to fuzzy after his basic elbow I don't really see how mid/throw is beyond basics. Most of the time Taka's options are pretty straight forward.

 

Can Taka follow up his mids with anything with a frame advantage? In my experience, no. Maybe that's why I have not seen any Taka combo the starts with a mid. It seems like Taka is always at a frame disadvantage unless after a block. This makes using him unconventional and "beyond basics". It looks like the only ways to really be "good" at Taka is to be unpredictable and this type of play, I only see in advance players. One can also be a defensive Taka but the window for him to counter moves are always very slim because of his slowness. I have not seen a defensive Taka yet tho. Anyways, going back to the topic, can we push aggressive players back using a mid? I tested Taka's 6 against Zendu_ a Sarah player last night. It looks like it can stop Sarah's kick barrage but only if you time it well and that is not basic play.

 

I don't really understand what you mean by that. For the topic Taka only has the basic options of interrupting with basic stuff like P or 2P or guarding and taking advantage from there. There are his armor moves too, but I really wouldn't go there much.

After you have the advantage you mix-up mid with throws. I assume that you mean Taka doesn't have strings with canned mix-ups starting with mids? You have good mids and fearsome throws... And what's "the window for him to counter moves are always very slim because of his slowness" supposed to mean anyway? His P, 2P and 6P are just as fast as anyones.

For the topic of PPP you are practically just giving your advantage away by doing that where as P get's you frames into mix-ups.

As for the last sentence, you can interrupt stuff depending on your frames. Knowing them is pretty basic play. I can go into more detail on that one if you provide specific situations.

 

"His P, 2P and 6P are just as fast as anyone's." True, although with 2p, Taka seems to lose out against Eileen's and Lion's (lag maybe?). Also P with online's lag seems to lose its frame advantage and I've not seen an aggressive player pause after a P jab, so I always lose out and almost always eat their combos after. "P get's you frames into mix-ups." can you give examples that works online?
BTW, I'm not saying I know more than you guys. I'm still learning. Hopefully in VF6 Taka will have E.Honda's "Hundred Hands" or a PPPP that is not duck-able or a fast string that hits mid

 

Taka players need to dictate the tempo.
Mix up Highs, Mids, and Lows to confuse the opponent.
Stop an opponents aggression by using a simple P or 2P then you become the aggresor

 

If your frame advatange is lost online due to lag... then don't play online? If you can only play online, then these are strictly online problems that have nothing to do with the character. Taka is not slow, as lammas said his 6P, 2P, P and throws are as fast as everyone else and can be utilized much in the same way.

 

Just buffer your shit, and you'll have the advantage. If you don't do something right afterwards, you can loose your advantage even offline.

 

"interrupt stuff depending on your frames."
What is the best Taka move to interrupt aggression?
"If your frame advantage is lost online due to lag... then don't play online?"
Sadly, online play is the only thing available to me. Anyways, the reason I say Taka is slow is that he seems to lose more of his frame advantage in online play compared to other characters (Taka's half circle back should be +15 but it doesn't look like it online.) So because of the realities of online play, I feel Taka loses most of his advantage and the usability of some of his moves. Just try using 8 as part of a mixup, its not gonna work online, esp. against aggressors. This might be a reason why there's not a lot of Taka players online. I've seen vids of Taka being played offline with move sets/mixups that are very effective but when I try those sets online they where useless due to the seeming frame disadvantage of Taka online. PPP is the only Taka move that seems to not lose out due to frames online. I know 2p kills it but aggressive players dont 2p, they attack standing up. The only player I know that is aggressive and uses 2p as part of that aggression is Hoyati a Sarah player on PSN.