Taking Breaks and Dealing with Salt.

How often do yall take breaks from this game when the matches just "aren't going your way"? Like I've said before in my own prior posts, nobody likes to lose all the time but it's a guarantee that you WILL lose all day in a Fighting Game. It's the nature of the beast. How do you all deal with the salt of constant defeat? How often do you take a break from VF5 and for how long? What makes you salty about this game?

I get salty losing all day because I'm a dad with 2 kids and I really want to get good at this game like all the OG greats but I only have maybe 4hrs a day of videogame time to actually use. It personally discourages me to look up at Mount Everest and only be able to maybe take a 20inch step up the mountain a day when that mountain probably grows 21inch a day lol.

 

Salt, hmm....

In VF and most other fighting games there will always be somebody better than you. No matter who you are, or how good you get, TBH , not just better, but a lot better . If you run into those folks you could end up losing all day If you never happen to run into those folks, you've just been lucky. Give it time, you'll eventually bump into that player that will show you the light

This is a cliche, but you're only real competition is who you see in the mirror. You should only compare yourself to how you last played. You should only measure yourself against yourself. If you are improving, and learning and you see progress compared to how you measured your performance last, then that's a good day. Learn how to measure fun and enjoyment by self improvement

There are VF Masters that never play online. There are VF masters that never play in tournaments. I've personally met some at casual gatherings. Players that are absolute beasts but are relatively unknowns to the broader VF community. So even if you think you've finally reached the level of someone on a leader board, or somebody you've seen on Twitch or Youtube, I hate to say this, but there are players considerably better than those. There always is Ask Mike Tyson, he thought he was to world heavy weight champion until he went to jail and ran into someone much much tougher and unknown

@Anthony Agosto I've lost hundreds of ranks matches against VF masters and VF scrubs. I've lost thousands of player matches against VF master and VF scrubs.
Again, here comes another cliche, in all of those loses, its not about the salt, or the frustration , its what I learned about myself that gives great value to those losses.

Some of my weakness I choose to keep, even though they may cause me to lose more matches in the future. Some of my weaknesses reflect who I am, so I don't want to part with them. On the other hand I learn lots of other things from the analysis of my losses that do end up causing me to improve , so that I'm a better VF player when I compared myself to myself the last time.

Here is a secret, Top players look so good, and the whole thing looks so impressive because they play each other dozens of times, year in year out. They get to know each other styles so well that it creates very intense and exiting matches, as they try to out Yomi each other. But the reality is, you can introduce an unknown strong player and the players that you thought were so good, are not quite the gods you thought they were and you find out they were mere mortals after all. That's why so many players want to go 1rst to 10 wins, or want to keep playing the other player over and over again until they can figure out his/her style Its only after they figure the unknown player's style that they get their confidence back And there's always an unknown strong player somewhere. There's some 12 year old phenom somewhere in the world right now that has picked up VF5US and will only play family and friends offline and will get scary good with the game. And He/She are unknown at this time. And may never ever be on leader boards anywhere until he/she shocks some high level player
And the high level player will of course demand to play the unknown player over and over as they try to figure out the frame analysis of why they're being beat

Its not about salt. Getting good at the game is a relative term. Getting good compared to who? Which players? Which Countries? Which VF Era? Offline vs Online? good against known VF masters? good against the unknown VF masters? Go against the AI?

Its not about winning or losing. It literally is about how you play the game, why you play the game and are you meeting the goals you set for yourself as you compare your performance today against your performance yesterday. And in all of that are you having fun playing the game. It is a game after all.

I believe I've lost more games than anyone I know. I've taken losing to an art form. I now can lose on my own terms. I can lose when I want, where I want, and how I want. I can chose ring out, time up. I can control whether my opponent's winning attack is (high, mid, low, or throw) I'm the absolute master of loosing. If there were ranks for spectacular losing, I would be among the highest ranks on the planet.

My style is Dead Duck Broken Wing Kung-Fu. Absolutely no one can beat me at losing. I'm literally the best loser in the VF community and proud to say so.
But because I'm the best loser, I'm also the most satisfied with my game play. I understand myself and have learned to value both my strengths and weaknesses.
my CHI is now solid iron.

Yea, I've also won thousands of rank matches and many more thousands of player matches in VF. But I don't learn as much about my self from wins. My wins are more about the opponent's weaknesses than my strengths. My wins are something for my opponents to learn from, not for me to learn from. Its my losses that I cherish the most. Because my losses give me an opportunity to improve something about my self (If I so desire) @Anthony Agosto at the end of the day getting good in VF is really about measuring self against self. And that process really involves squeezing every bit of knowledge and value you can from your losses.

Nah man, its not about salt . Its about realizing that losing is the only true path to getting scary good. Its because I've lost so many many matches, under so many diverse situations that I have absolutely no fear. Nerves are never an issue for me. I can face anyone at anytime and decide if and how I want to lose. I can, I have, and I do beat VF masters all the time. But its my losses to scrubs, casuals, unknown players, and losses against the AI that fascinate me the most, that I cherish the most, and that I see as the best opportunity to grow

 

This is beyond motivation. I started this thread as a chill outlet for people to voice their salt in place without judgment or ridicule. Yet here you come in and almost move me to tears. This was probably the most helpful thing on this site I've ever read. Learning how to beat myself and control my losses is a view I never considered. Too much in life we are told and measured by success. That your self worth is directly coordinated to your achievements. This hits harder than I ever thought. This advice from the "Ultimate Loser" is so much more relatable than advice from someone "already at the top of the mountain". Thank you.

 

Well, here is the corollary to the point.

Contrary to Fighting Game Myth: No amount of Frame Knowledge, or Frame Analysis, or Match-up Understanding can prevent you from losing.

You can totally master all there is to know about Frame Data, and Character Match Ups, and at best all it can do is help you understand why you lost a round or a match.

Sure, If Your are a Frame Master, or a Match-up Guru that knowledge will help you CRUSH noobs, and casual players. That's called being a bully where I'm from

But once you run into a player at your level who understands frame knowledge just as much as you and has the same basic character match up knowledge as you then you are no longer protected from losing. And you can get your ass handed to you just like anybody else. Accept the Frame Analysis gives you a little comfort in knowing why and how you lost (and for some people this helps)

The fact of the matter is when you are matched against someone who has equal or more skill than you, the Frame Data and Match-up knowledge only comes into play for players that you are already familiar with That is, players that you have played over and over again. If someone that you have never played before, with equal or more skill than you have comes out of a box that you have never seen before then, the winner is determined by other factors

As far as salt many players try to shield themselves from loss, and assure a win, by wrapping themselves in Frame Data Knowledge and Character Matchup Info But in order for any of this to work, they need lots of repetition and practice playing against the opponents that they want to be guaranteed to win against. hmmm....

That's why so many Tekken Top level players got shocked when they ran up against top players from the Middle East, and from Africa that they had never played against. All the Frame Data and Character Matchup knowledge in the world didn't prepare them for the unfamiliar, unknown player who had equal or more skill

So in reality the No Salt illusion is driven by:

Frame Data Knowledge + Character Match-up Knowledge + Opponent Familiarity

This next fact might be hard to understand at first, but give it time.

Given two high level players who have equal skill, equal dexterity, equal Frame Knowledge and equal Character Matchup knowledge who have never played each other the winner is determined much in the same way as a match between two noobs or between two casual players who have never played each other

Even if you understand all the basic character match-ups there are dozens of ways(maybe more) for each character to be played. E.g. I know 12 strong Akiras and they all play Akira differently. I can only imagine how many different styles of Akira are out there that I've never come across. There is no real practical way to prepare for them all, or to guarantee yourself that you won't lose. I've come across more than 50 different mediocre, and even worse poorly done Lei Fei's styles, and I get amused all the time with how easily a cheese move can win if I don't anticipate it

@Anthony Agosto the moral of the story is, VF is a video game, the object is to have fun and enjoy yourself playing it (often with family and friends). Don't fall for the get gude scam that causes thousands of insecure players to spend thousands of hours studying frame data an character match-ups so they can be guaranteed not to be deemed a loser or worse, a salty to loser But all of that effort, all of that time, all of that work, only generates a false sense of security. Because it only works on players they are very familiar with, or noobs or casual players.

No amount of Frame Data Analysis, Character Matchup Knowledge can shield you from or keep you from losing to that never before encountered player that has your same level of knowledge or skill or obviously from a player that is better than you.

And the corollary to that fact, is if you are playing with people that you are familiar with, or that you play all of the time who are approximately at your skill level or higher, Frame Data Analysis and Character match-up knowledge would not protect you from losing, but will only serve to explain why you lost, or why a move didn't work, etc.

So loss, is inevitable. Unless every match always ends in a tie, one of the players is going to lose , even if both players are experts, or if both players are noobs, or if both players are casuals. Players try to avoid being the loser through repetition, familiarity with the opponent, massive amounts of frame analysis, and character match-up knowledge , but in the end somebody's going to lose(so why the salt). If you surround yourself with a small enough circle of players, you can all be guaranteed a somewhat equal chance of winning and losing. This is why there are so many private-slot-members-only rooms in Fighting games. No one want to have some dominant unknown power house player barge into their room ,and spoil the illusion

The object of the game is to have fun, enjoy yourself, and realize that the only real person you're competing against is yourself. Have fun winning. Have fun losing. Enjoy the graphics, move sets, character designs, stages, and music. Pick a character(s) that you relate to, forget the salt, and just do the damn thing

@Anthony Agosto you have 2 kids, that's a blessing. The last thing you want to do is spend 30, 40+ hours a week chasing an illusion of false security, that really only measures how familiar you are with your opponent.

 

I feel like you being a Dad is far more important, but masterpo posts are very much valid. I was a chess player in the 1990s, challenging other schools, clubs, and entering mass tournaments, before migrating to the fighting game genre. I had to find out the hard way in that era, which being a winner didn't fill the void for me.

I should have taken those sessions with more merit from one of the world's renowned chess players in the late 1990s, instead of ignoring what I've learnt of myself during my greater youth. Part of that lesson was, that the endless pursuit of prowess, measuring that through intuitiveness and skill versus another for self-worth, was never for me. I've always needed an answer to something to justify my existence, due my struggle with nihilistic childhood development. In recent times in returning to the genre itself, whatever happens, happens, in versus setting to me, while having fun doing so. I feel alot better.

My best friend is a treatment to the void, though. So, I'll honor her at the maximum. I was thinking about having a child(s) one day and getting married to a potential beloved. I'm still young, so I'll think about it.

However, for you though, I wouldn't give yourself a hard time.

 

You make me sound old lol even tho I'm only 26. I'm still seeking that Hobby Fullfillment. Being a dad is hardwork.

 

Me, it's in reverse. Well sort off.

Despite being a VF player for many years, years ago, I use to play tekken online sometimes for fun, and beat a lot of so called Evo pro's, then get salty hate messages from them, after dishing them salt filled sugar in every match. It was like watching Darksydephils famous salty sundays, from these evo pro gamers, anytime I went online. And the salt mines kept building up as time passed, to epic Mt. Everest proportions, til it passed 10 feet upwards.

Win or lose, I realised being salty is a normal thing in fighting games, whether it be online or offline, or whether the salt comes from you or your opponent.

After a while, you start to realise, being salty is almost a waste of time. And then you become less salty after you lose a match, or after a bunch of silly evo pro youtubers, sends a ton of hatemails to your psn network inbox, because you kicked their butts over and over again.

After that experience, I realised that....

"The salt...........................is real."