Teaching AI Aoi multithrows

Discussion in 'Console' started by Will_Gotti, Mar 24, 2002.

  1. Will_Gotti

    Will_Gotti Member

    Ok I've taught Aoi everything but whenever I do a multi it says the AI learned it but what happens is either the AI just does her p+g throw or it does the first part of the multigrab but doesn't finish it like for example (half circle back)HCB+P+G, B,D+P+G, U,D+P+G the AI will only do HCB+P+G then get confused on how to do the rest. What do I have to do to get the thing to comprehend the entire throw? My AI Aoi has lost matches cause she'll start the multi but won't finish it and the other AI ends up with about 5% health then beats her. It's just stupid.
     
  2. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    I've never seen a kumite Aoi do the whole multi throw either... maybe its something the AI has a problem with like doing modified moves with Akira and Lau.

    Teach your AI the from crouching throw into ground throw. (D,f+P+G, df+P+G) It's more efficient and probably will be more reliable in the long run, although I don't remember seeing kumite Aoi's doing the ground throw much either... /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

    Does anyone have an AI Jeff doing the TKoD, or how about Wolf doing something productive with his multi throws? I've only seen kumite Wolf's grab and then push me away for no damage. At least kumite Wolf/Jeff will sometimes use the ground pick up throw...
     
  3. Will_Gotti

    Will_Gotti Member

    I have taught her to do some tight stuff like b,b+p+k into ground throw and other combos that people would normally do. I'd just like her to finish her dan throws she won't even finsh her 270 p+g to hcf+k+g it's just frustrating cause it would have killed her opponent then she either does win anyways or gets beat. I've tried everything under the sun to get the AI to understand but nothing works. I have resorted to just having her do combos I do on her in practice and throws into groundthrow into u+k+g. Thanks anyways.
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    CPU aoi got me with it once, I was shocked. It was the one time I didn't bother jamming on d+P+G. Maybe it only does it if you don't try to escape.
    90% of the time it's just HCF+P+G.
     
  5. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    The problem is with how the AI system works, and I would be highly surprised if you can get AI to do extended multis in Kumite. Part of the problem is that AI will learn as they see but they won't practice what you preach until they DO the move themselves. This means they have to mimic your actions and come to the same result. If they start a multi and dont finish it due to confusion (the ? appears), they will do the same in Kumite.
    Another problem is that there seems to be a limit to what AI can absorb for multis or anything where you are inputting multiple commands in a flow during execution. This is why multis often fail. Your best bet is to simply show them the multi a dozen times over so they will get the gist of it and hopefully nail the full throw in Kumite.
    Wolf and Jeffrey's pick up shove ground throw are easy to teach as it it a single command input. The reason they may not do it is because you must teach them this move as part of a technique string (flowchart if you will). I have never seen them do it outside of a knockdown combo I taught them (which included the throw).
    You'll soon realize that AI will not rank up past mid Dan unless you teach them effective combos WELL. As a human you get significant extra damage from floats and flows. The AI needs to be shown this as well. Ground throws are part of this.
    I have my AI Wolf doing multis now from the standing struggle grab. He rarely if ever gets one from the dash in position change tackle. And this is due to timing during sparring. As you've noticed the AI will be confused on most delayable moves if you perform them as fast as you can. You MUST incorporate the delay for them to pick up on it. With throws, it's the opposite... you must input chain throw commands ASAP or they will not consider the second input part of the initial command. Unlike delayable strikes, this is harder to do and you dont know if you're doing it fast enough until the AI screws it up. This leads to you teaching them incomplete throws... which they learn... and mimic.. and execute in Kumite.
    I have taught AI Wolf to struggle grab, position change and then calf brand, but he only ever did it once in sparring and almost never gets it out in Kumite because of all the failed attempts in spar due to timing (leading to his grab, change, let go routine).

    Yupa...
    Teach Wolf/Jeff to ground grab after a knockdown move and follow the grab by your preferred followup. Dont stop the flow at the grab... they can and will learn the proper followups if you show them. I have taught Wolf the full punch string to knockdown, ground grab, chop, tow kick stunner. Thats a big flow. There seems to be no limit to the flow of strikes, but as Ive said... multithrows are alot harder and require FAST input.

    (as an example, try teaching Wolf his Pendulum lariat (HCB+p+g, p+g)... if you delay the second p+g for the lariat until it seems appropriate he will not pick up on it. If you input the lariat p+g immediately after the initial grab, the AI will get it.. but it may feel odd to you to input so quickly)
     
  6. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Typhoon, very enlightening stuff... cheers!
     
  7. Ealsen

    Ealsen Well-Known Member

    Ok this may be out of the topic but I am curious if anyone managed to teach AI Shun's combo?

    After chouwan, df+P,P,K
    I have a feeling that AI may never be able to do this since after chouwan, human player normally input df and hold for a fraction of second before enterring P,P,K. But when my AI tried to "mimic" this moves, it did ground attack df+P instead of df+P uppercut. Tried it many many ways to teach him and it seems hopeless.

    One thing I noticed that CPU in Trial mode could execute chouwan, b,f+PPP, df+P(Uppercut).
     
  8. Typhoon

    Typhoon Well-Known Member

    Ok this may be out of the topic but I am curious if anyone managed to teach AI Shun's combo?

    Not off the topic, but an example of the limitations the AI sparring imposes. To get the combo off, it requires a little finesse on the players part (not being a big Shun guy, I went and taught myself the combo). This kind of precision cannot be mimicked by the AI as it can only eat and regurgitate portions of the command list in order. The best you can do is back away from your AI in spar, do the Chowan, pause, and do the d/f+ppk. They will do them as instructed if you guard the Chowan as they mimic. But this defeats the whole combo. If you take the Chowan strike and float, due to command input (without finesse) the AI will do d/f+p which will garner the light down.
    You may also notice the AI Shun mimicking d/f+ppk slower than fastest input. This is caused by the AI not being able to understand timing, only genralizations of the canned combo. If they did float on Chowan, they would execute the d/f+ppk too slowly to hit with all 3.
    As a float combo, this one is out of reach of the AI as far as I tested (and I pulled my hair out trying too). The d/f+p is what confuses the AI into doing the light down. This does not restrict you from other floats from Chowan though, and after giving up on d/f+ppk I found several that are comparable in damage and much easier for the AI to understand.
     

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