Teaching the game?

i think basic should contain the elementary stuff like blocking and evading. intermediate would contain fuzzy guards and simple throw escapes. advanced could contain evading and multiple throw escapes. this is an interesting topic and i will have to think about this a bit more to compile a more formal "list" of categories for people who want to teach VF5 to others.

 

Marly, I think that at the intermediate/advanced stage, stepping becomes very important.

I am at that stage where opponents with better spacing skills really destroy me. In VF you can rely up to a certain point on 2P and evades, and in order to deal with those backdashing in and out of range is really essential.

But unfortunately stepping is really dexterity-intensive, not the easiest thing to learn/teach.

PS: lol at the character data in the sign.

 

I think stepping just requires practicing box stepping over and over in the dojo; in both directions. That's how I learned it.

 

XD which ones? Jenkins imo is one of the funnier names.

 

What Tricky said for stepping. Then you just need to figure out when to apply it. Which won't be so hard because you already have the muscle memory.

I reckon Fuzzy guard for intermediate defence.
Intermediate offence would be things like char specific combos/wall combos/half wall combos/combos for ring out carry. Oki would prob be intermediate offence.
How to get up from the floor I think should be beginner defence.

Something else for intermediates that doesn't really fall into either category I think would be stage awareness. Know where you are and if you or your opponent is in danger of being rung-out/pushed to a wall for a combo.

I cant think where spacing would be.

TE's for advanced defence.
Stepping for advanced defence/offence (because it can be used either way)

I dno where evade cancelling would go, I still cant do that too well tbh lol.

 

Depends on where they're starting

I'd categorize them in different groups

A) Total newbies to fighting game concepts
B) Comes from 2D fighting game background
C) Comes from another 3D fighting game background

With group A I'd go through the basic concepts of mid/high/low, blocking, throwing, sidestepping and frames (on the most rudimental level, "why this is faster then that") then move on to the nitaku guessing game.

With group B I would explain the basic nitaku concept, how the sidestep system works, show them a couple of good attacks with their characters and get them rolling.

With group C I would explain the basic nitaku concept's emphasis on throws, show them a couple of good mids and other attacks, give them a basic catch all combo finisher as well as explain the differences in sidestepping compared to their game.

I would maybe show fuzzy guard, but I usually don't focus on them learning it in the beginning.

 

Start with Defense first always. As long as you can hold out to get your opportunity to punish you will be alright. I currently teaching my little brother and he like Lion. He plays a lot of different fighters but he like to watch VF. Now he wants in so i started him with defense. Anybody can press a button. Once the defense tools are set everything else can be applied.

 

I don't have much to add here to what every poster above has already pointed out. All I have to say is that I think any section covering the topic of reversals should perhaps be included in the Advanced Defense section.

Kruza

 

Since he has a bit of knowledge for fuzzying i started with that first after making him test out his safe moves.

then i made a little drills for him to go over. like setting the CPU to after guarding so he can get his evading timing better.
Basically i wanted him to know when to apply these defensive techniques. He caught on with the evading after the safe moves pretty quickly. I did'nt go on to the advance techniques yet because i don't want to overload him.

 

Forgot to say this:

I think an important thing is to not be too strict with beginners either, show them some cool shit to do as well, to give them that glimpse of what you get to as you advance.

 

For beginners, the most important thing is to immediately recognize the advantage and disadvantage, and this is really a huge step, over this, all the other things will just come along.

 

Some people don't get that the game is 3 buttons. I played a guy earlier who asked me if the SF arcade stick he has is good to play with

 

-Knowing your characters moves/properties.

-Proficiency of command input.

-How to beat move a/b. i.e. 4 ways to beat 2p. 443k<stagger<followup. elbow stagger opponent attacking @ disadvantage, goodluck online, reading a 2p and om+p to chest area, using special move to cut or reverse 2p.

-Knowing properties of om and how/when to use. i.e. Opponent 2ping @ disadv. then om+p to chest side allowing crouch stagger with followup. easy setup training test in dojo.

-Building a strong base of support rather than hiding behind set move always when all tools are taken away from you. i.e. Sarah can use 3k+g footsweep knockdown to condition low with followup or p+k side hide kick for crouchers which causes a stagger with 3k crumple to a followup. This way they are forced to respect the small two way guess and leaves you not at one choice to be easily read.

-Recognition of successful/failed evade. What does it mean or what is your options at that point. Covering your tracks with canceling a failed evade with crouch dashing + fuzzy guard. Knowing when to attacking during failed evade in disadv. situation reading opponent will attack with a high or mid. Remember sometimes characters moves can go under mids at disadv, dirty! Practice with a friend how long it takes to recover from a true failed evade by holding down guard. Opponent online should be able to p,k you.

-Testing/Knowing recovery time of moves for baiting purposes.

-Testing/Knowing active frames of moves for crushing opponents attacks/rising attacks.

More to come.

 

When I heard basic VF described as "taking turns" - the world opened up for me.

If I attack successfully. It's still my turn to attack.

If my attack is defended, it's my opponent's turn to attack.

If I get hit, it's still my opponent's turn to attack.

If I defend, it's my turn to attack again.

Once I understand turns, I can use the special properties of certain moves. Then I know when I can take my turn again (even though I just got blocked).

 

Yupa and Numbers used to beat me with sticks. So I wanted to use one too.

 

This.

Fuzzy, ETEG and other 'technical' things will just come naturally when you understand when you, like Plague said, know when it's your turn. Although I think in VF it's basically always your turn to do something, since defense is such an active part of the game. Never a dull moment!

When you understand the concept of disadvantage, all of a sudden timing an evade or reversal is no longer difficult at all, it's just a natural thing to do when you're at disadvantage. When you understand this concept you can start actually playing the game! Even before you know the 'advanced' stuff!

After that you get: 'What do I use to beat this pattern?', this will then naturally lead into learning techniques like fuzzy and ETEG.

 

Character specific stuff should come under advanced level.

Such as the difference between open and closed stance which allow certain juggles to be performed and also the difference in hitboxes for open and closed stance where for example an elbow would otherwise have whiffed if performed in the other stance.

Basic level should be frame trapping ie guarded (+2) -> 14f elbow to frame trap anything 12f or above and particularly .

I don't think it is correct to think about a match of VF in terms of "basic level" and "advanced level" in a VF match all techniques should be combined in order to achieve a varied defence aswell as offence to try to limit the hindrance of being predictable.

Some of you state ETEG as being an advanced level technique. So what...you're saying a beginner should fuzzy in a match but it's understandable if they don't ETEG as it's an advanced technique? Absolutely not. ETEG is a way to deal with -7 -> -11 situations to be used in conjunction with abare launcher, stand block, delayed fuzzy, empty evade and stepping.

If you guys are not using several different methods of attacking pressure and defencive technique then it's fair to say that you're not playing on the multi-layer mindgame which you all hold VF in such high regard for.

 

Where or how do the tutorials start on the PS2 version of VF4 (or VF4evo)?