Tekken 4

Chanchai: i agree with everything you say

one of the main reasons that i came to VF is cos in tekken if you attack you get a really big counter and look silly, where as in VF if you attack you win ,
tekken just had too many inconsistencies for me, i wanted a game that was the same every time, ( e.g. if i do, d/f+1 and it hits on CH i want to be able to do 1,3,2,2 every time) and from what ppl told me, i decided that VF was the game that would do that for me


i only win from your mistakes, not my skill

 

how did that go?

I've introduced a lot of people to VF over the years. I've never encountered a serious gamer (often tekken nuts) who didn't finally admit that VF was easily the best 3D fighter. Sometimes it takes minutes, sometimes months. But they always come around!

All those things that scrubs complain about (too slow! no combos!) contribute to the tautness and fairness that make the game great.

grib.

 

Re: FUCK TEKKEN

Come to the light, _Testsuo_, come... to... the... light...

Just kidding around -- good choice. VF whips the hell out of tekken. If you've got skills, VF is a much more level playing field to flex them on...

grib.

 

Eventually it comes to light the good amount of speed and combos that exist within the VF games. However, the number of exchanges usually still remain high, depending on who is playing who, anyways/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

-Chanchai

 

I laugh when they moan about a bad story Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaa.
er.... anyway the tekken was no fcuking master peice when it came to story

'Hah whats next attack of the drunken cats' Wong Fei Hong from Drunken Master

 

Re: FUCK TEKKEN

and when scrubs moan about being cheap that what anoys me the most like so and so is cheap and when so and os gets toned down they moan like assholes

'Hah whats next attack of the drunken cats' Wong Fei Hong from Drunken Master

 

VF does have a pretty bad story though...

 

They also have very bad outfits but in both cases it is sort of endearing bad. Personally I woud not want it any other way.

Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin

 

i think its aright could be better but who cares. imho the last tekken with a good storyline is number 2

'Hah whats next attack of the drunken cats' Wong Fei Hong from Drunken Master

 

Didn't you guys have this discussion before? I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu here.

 

*Hairs on back prickling*

 

Actually Jeff, high level tekken from what I can see is all about pecking, and I suspect VF4 may become a little bit like Tekken, the big advantage of the vf series has been its focus on throws. Tekken is not so much focused on throws since even the throwing characters have high damage strings and combo's they can use. VF4 seems to have deemphasized throws in favor of attacks.

I'm focusing on paul in tekken right now and I can say he plays a bit like jacky, 3 or 4 hits at a time and major power moves to win. It is very boring, I only use a few things to win and so far the game is much less appealing than VF3 and VF4.

CrewNYC

 

Yeah, we're basically in agreement there. I play Paul similarly. Have you seen the XITY tournament vids from Tekken Central? Except Yoshi (and Hwoarang somewhat), everyone plays like Jacky, even Xiaoyu.

However, I do think the jury is still out on how important throws are in VF4. I don't believe the players in many of the vids know how to attempt throws effectively in throw situations. I still see a lot of clips where the extended throw range is not taken advantage of in stagger situations (Kyasao is a good example of someone who does know). The TBzone Korean clips in particular show that this understanding has not been reached yet. So...maybe it won't be as de-emphasized as we thought.

Plus, I personally feel throwing in Tekken is a lot better than most give it credit for. There are situations where after you block a move attempting to throw will eat a lot of what the attacker can throw at you next.

 

I don't know about that, Andy. From what I've seen, high level Tekken play isn't as much about poking as it is about using power moves that either juggle or do a lot of damage, and are hard to counter if blocked. In most of the clips I've seen, mostly off of tekkencentral.com, the Kazuya, Bryan, Jin, Law, Ganryu players are trying to juggle and combo, rather than set up for the right moment.
I may be misunderstanding what you mean by pecking. But if you mean 1,2 jabs, low punches, things like that, then I gotta disagree.


-<font color=white>Ghost</font color=white><font color=red>DOG</font color=red>

 

tekken at a high level

imho TTT at a high level is all about setting up your best laucher, as the damage you do in the air is totaly free and safe, it's very easy for you to lose your whole bar from one mistake in TTT at a high level.

there are only 7 chars that are REALLY safe and damaging in TTT they are, Jin , Heihachi, Kazuya Ogre, True Ogre, Lei and Bruce, these are the most likely chars to be used in tourney play, i'll note some reasons why they are so good

Jin , has a EWGF, it's an uppercut that gives you advatage, when it hits you get a very easy 60% combo, comes out in 11 frames, the only down side to this move is that it can only be done from a crouch dash and hits high , but it has mad prioraty and may aswell be mid.
he also has a totally safe mid uppercut from crouching , there are only 2 or 3 chars that can hit him after he does this( btw they are little hits, not juggles or anything)
he also has a low "sweep" attack that gives him a 40% juggle and then okizemi (that means ground pressure in tekken), the only down side to the sweep is that if it's blocked your in big trouble
, Jin can also wave dash, this means lots of CD's( crouch dashes) in a row quickly canceled in to more CD's, he can do all his moves from the WD, it is a very powerful tool

Heihachi, is pretty much the same as jin, but his EWGF hits Sm ( special mid, but it can't be low parryed like low jabs ), he also has a really safe mid upper cut from standing the goes under all high attacks ( ff+2 for those in the know) and has 70% combos that follow it., also heihachi can do 3 sweeps in a row, if the first sweep wiffs then the other two are totally safe if blocked

bah,. i'm tired now, i'll do the rest later

i only win from your mistakes, not my skill

 

Re: tekken at a high level

My Opinion on high level of play

Its more than just characters. I think its basically the player using the characters that creates high level play. You are right with the characters you listed, but these are basically characters who are often seen won at tournaments. Like you said many other characters have a chance of winning out others... depending on the player.

Jin, yeah his ewgf (electric wind godfist) is very powerful in Tekken 3/Tag. It is his single best arsenal.... especially when people go ewgf crazy. Jin does have some other moves that helps him become a very dangerous character. b+4 in TT, df+4, df+1 are good quick solid poking moves imo. Jin does have... man I am getting mad lazy.... like ShinJin I will conclude at a later time.

 

Hmmm..let's see
Upon arrival at my place..I immediately showed my friend both VF4 intro...immediately after seeing Lei fei...he's convinced this is a game he would be interested in checking it out.

So we started a few VF3tb on the DC...like all newbies..the fetish love for Akira is at a all time high...so I taught him a few simple moves n explained some things to him...

next thing I knew..he did this to me

DE, guardbreak, SJK, SDE...

I was very impressed with that particular flowchart. But there are a few niggly bad habits he still has...like not struggling when being staggered or getting up in time. It got to the extend I had to stomp him as a friendly reminder to get up.

Next I explained the throw reversals systems to him...it's funny how when I learnt to play the game, I had no teacher explaining things to me like positioning after throw reversals..DTE etc...I was never in any pressure abt the game being 'deep'.

But showing to my friend what can be done after TE, DTE highlighted the fact just how much info a newbie has to struggle with when learning VF3...

Oh, he's never seen KS as well..of coz I had to show him I was the only boy in the city capable of doing it /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

next character he chose to use was Kage...so we were mucking around with Kage..doing sonic rolls..TFT etc etc..
so we're moving around then it happened~!

Up in sdyney three weeks ago..Myke did a flipkick with Kage, I did a df, K+G with Kage at the same time...somehow both attacks missed n we ended up switching sides...

Last night the same thing happened...I was just happy to see it happen again...

but for my friend, he just went ' oh wow...this is such a beautiful game'.

Somehow, hearing this comment feels funny...esp coming from a TTT player..who also happens to be disappointed in T4..

I can hear his disappointments in his voice. Esp when he would always say..."let's play TTT" instead of ' Let's play T4"

the worse issue abt T4 has to be the fucking time released characters...it's fucked.

My friend put in so much of his time learning Lei n Heihachi, baek n Bryan in TTT...

Now that T4 is here...he has to WAIT for his characters?

Weak.

But anyhow..b4 he left, I showed him the VF4 game play that were in VF4 history disc...After seeing Kage, Lau and lei fei in action...he's no longer interested in just checking out the game.

This is the game he's dying to play for right now.
Too bad I had to break the bad news to him abt the game not having a very good chance of coming here at all~

<font color=red>~~~ 'Flock off feather brain, or u can stick around and find out the hard way!/versus/images/icons/mad.gif~~~'

 

My experience in VF4 with throws is that they're just as important, and potent, as they ever were.

The slower execution is compensated for with what seems to be slightly extended range all around.

The fact that you can now crouch dash from a crouch, then throw adds a deep dimension to the throw game. You can guard a low rising attack, crouch dash, then throw the guarding oppt without standing. In fact, I saw one Jacky player in Japan who just stayed crouching after having his low riser guarded to avoid the throw. Seemed crazy, but genius.

The improved crouch dash also makes some characters monsters with their d/f, d/f+P+G throws, like Jeffry.

to mention another clip, did you see how in the Muscles Sarah vs Neo Tower clip (I think that's the one) how Jacky totally abused teh knee strike? I think it's a good example of how they haven't been toned down.

Spotlite

 

Re: tekken at a high level

Personally, I've always seen Jin's WGF/EWGF as defensive/counter tools and for combos, as most opponents I've played against are looking to guard low when the see Jin crouchdashing. From a crouch dash, I generally favor his axe kicks or ws+2 for crouching defenders, f+1+2 for dodging defenders and a single sweep -> combo for standing defenders.

 

Re: tekken at a high level

Poster: Anonymous
Subject: Re: tekken at a high level

Its more than just characters. I think its basically the player using the characters that creates high level play. You are right with the characters you listed, but these are basically characters who are often seen won at tournaments. Like you said many other characters have a chance of winning out others... depending on the player.

i'm sorry , but i have to disagree with you there, it's not possible for Kunimitsu or Lee to beat even a half decent bruce player, (it's not a problem for me cos i play ogre/togre )
it's a well known fact that some chars simply can't win on TTT, and that hasen't changed in T4 eather



i only win from your mistakes, not my skill