Tekken 7.,.,. Robbed, Pimped and Squeezed

Discussion in 'General' started by masterpo, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Okay I recently got Tekken 7 as a gift. Christmas you know....

    First I had to buy my character in a season pass (Lei Wulong). I ended up buying all the season passes to get all the missing characters available so far....

    I've finished story mode, took 3 or 4 characters to Tekken God Prime in Treasure Battle and played a few hundred ranked matches and a few hundred player matches.

    My honest conclusion is Tekken 6 gives you more for your money. More Characters, More Modes, more stages and on the PS3 you don't have to pay for PSN. And if you don't go for the rage-art thing Tekken 6 is really what's up. IMO Tekken 6 is gives the gamer a more rich fighting experience.

    So Bamco delivers a partial Tekken product (missing characters and missing stages and missing modes) charges full price $59.99+ right off the bat, and then has the balls to sell you the characters they purposely left out 1 season pass at a time. So by the time you get all the characters and stages that you got in Tekken 6 for $59.99 for your Tekken 7 version you will have probably spent $159.99 or more. That's good for Bamco. That's good for the shareholders! But that FN sux for the gamer.

    And all that "the game production costs more bullsh#t" is just that. Tekken 7 has the same basic move sets, Same basic animations, same core stuff where some of it goes all the way back to Tekken 3. In many ways its the same piece of software that running in Tekken 3 or 4. I'm not saying there haven't been changes, and upgrades, or new tools applied, but nothing that could warrant the way they are robbing, pimping and squeezing customers the way Bamco is with Tekken 7.

    If I could get the family member's money back that purchased Tekken 7 for me in the first place, and my season pass money back I would.

    I understand if all you have is a current gen gaming console and Tekken is your game, you really had little choice but to pay up and get extorted. But at the price you might ultimately end up paying for Tekken 7, you can probably get a used last gen console and copy of Tekken 6 and come out on top. Especially not having to pay a yearly or quarterly or monthly PSN fee. And for what its worth there are still Tekken 6 players out there to play against.

    Maybe the gamers that were Born after 2000 don't realize they're being Fu*king Raped by the Bamco and perhaps that's been Bamco's plan all the long. "Sell it to a new generation of gamers" they don't know how fighting games used to be sold and distributed.

    Its like these game publishers are saying to themselves "what is the least amount of features that I can ship with the game and still charge full price" and what can I leave out of the game and later sell one piece at a time at a premium and whats the most that these gamers will pay for a season pass and the privilege to play said season pass?

    I truly hope this is not what Sega has in store for us with Virtua fighter 6:cry:
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  2. Lygophilia

    Lygophilia Well-Known Member

    You kind of explained why that FGs haven't changed much since the 1990s, which is why I rather stay in past games. For the genre, it's games today are too cookie cutter to get into opposed to the classics, because there is no innovation anymore.

    To me, the Sega Dreamcast had the better library of this genre, but it was wasted talent at the end. I rather see them in the marketplace though.

    Until the genre gets out of stagnation, if it can, FGs from this generation aren't worth it. So, I agree, you're getting more of the samething, which is very tiresome.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  3. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Yea, I hate to even use the phrase Golden Age of FGs, but we may have already seen it. Once upon a time it at least seemed like the FG publishers were innovating and competing for who could take the FG genre to the next level. Now the plan seems to be take an old IP figure out a new way to monetize it, put a little spit and polish here and there and let the money roll in.

    It just seems like there is too much greed involved. Rage Art, and Rage Drive are not really innovations. They're more of an attempt at a money grab than anything else. (i.e. lets gets some of that cheese from the 2D fighting fans) . Comparing Tekken 6 and Tekken 7 the gamer gets a lot more for the money with Tekken 6:( The FG publishers appear to want to dumb down the FG genre to point where anybody can win a tournament no matter how little skill they actually have. Or anybody can make is to ranks like say "Vanquisher" or "Sage" or Tekken true God just by fun casual play no extraordinary skill required. That way they'll sell more product. Of course game publishers should be paid for their efforts. But now it seems its only about the money and to hell with FG community and FG genre.

    So what's the typical strategy?

    1. Take old seasoned IP(intellectual property) and find a way to monetize it by shipping it with only partial features with the left out features to be sold at a later date through the Season Pass scheme

    2. Use the DLC scheme to sell what we used to get as easter eggs and for extra achievements. You know we use to call "Unlockables"

    3. Dumb down the FG enough so that it can be marketed as rated G for General Audiences, complete with single button flashy combos, automatic guards and evades that help the player with lower health who is on the verge of losing. And a one button comeback tactic and meter that can turn any unlucky gamer from a loser to the match winner.

    4. Put the FG community on a guilt trip by telling them: well if Tekken 7 season passes and DLC don't sell, this will be the last Tekken. That way the community will feel the pressure to buy the game and all possible season passes and DLC in hopes that they keep their favorite game/community alive. Make it clear to the community that the game was almost not published and that the developers had to beg to get one more chance and that the only hope of continued updates, support and future versions is for the community to pre-order the game by the masses, buy all season passes as soon as available and purchase all DLC when announced.(And we'll probably fall for this hustle every time).

    5. Divide the game into standard editions, deluxe editions, special editions etc that kick in at the pre-order phase to make sure that shareholders are satisfied with profit potential. By assuring the shareholders before the game is even released that with this version of Tekken you are going to make 300% profit per gamer.

    In this scenario, game publishers end up happy. Shareholders end up happy. Gamers usually end up with short lived joy followed by the emptiness of "what just happened?" when they open their eyes and see the game that was actually shipped and realize their current experience was not really as good as their previous experience with the old Tekken.

    In the case of Tekken 7 Bamco could have just taken Tekken 6 and ported it as is to current gen consoles and the P.C. Oh, wait a minute isn't that what they just did? They took out a chunk of the roster added a couple of new characters and guest characters. Called it Tekken 7 with the missing Roster to be added as 4 season passes???? Naw, that's not what happened.. I'm leaving out the Rage Art and Rage Drive Innovation, the Bowling Game, and the Jukebox:meh:

    I hate to admit it, by I think we've been robbed, pimped, squeezed, bamboozled, sucker punched, made a fool of, and ultimately disrespected.

    I don't think any of these guys are going to be getting my money anytime soon, at least until I make sure, damn sure there is something in it for me:mad:
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  4. Sonic Bros 3D

    Sonic Bros 3D Well-Known Member

    Yeah but you will play it...

    And at least they had a new and current gen Tekken, with full of same continent connections only, graphics and art style of nowadays but not 2005 anymore.

    You can find the game and DLCs cheaper (-50%) with the internet and stuff.

    And we would do exactly the same for VF6.
    masterpo likes this.
  5. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Manager Taka


    If it's gaming that's got you upset, wait till you hear about housing prices, student loans, and the military industrial complex... among a whole list of other things.

    Shit, people my age and younger probably will never experience this "retirement" thing.

    Anyone wanna necro-post the old Politics thread? lol
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    masterpo likes this.
  6. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Housing prices, student loans the military industrial complex I do understand. Its just extra sad when the greed has penetrated video games :( The video is spot on capitalism is killing gaming. But the real question is why does it cost more to produce games? The software development tools are better. There are more sophisticating gaming engines that are easier to use. The gaming software libraries are solid. Its actually far easier to make a good looking game now than its ever been.

    And how programmed we all are to want the next or newest version of whatever, even though the current version is good enough. I'm not a big Tekken player obviously my main fighting game is VF. But I do play Tekken and Soul Calibur. IMO Tekken 6 simply has more content for the money. I have 3 PS3s so I could be playing Tekken 6 for who knows how long. Someone did give me Tekken 7 as a christmas gift, but I have to admit for some reason I was tempted to buy it, even before it was given to me. I really didn't have a good reason to buy it (but I was tempted)

    The large game publishers have to keep feeding the shareholders and generating more and more profit. Even if it means selling us the same games over and over again with very little change.

    @Sonic Bros sadly , I fear that you are right. We can't help ourselves and the game publishers know it. In fact they depend on it. But I think I'm at the point where I'm ready to draw the line.

    For instance., DOA 6 is supposed to come out March 1rst. I have DOA 5 Last Round with the VF characters. DOA5LR is the only place I use Akira :LOL:. If DOA 6 does not have VF characters or if it is not a truly significant improvement over DOA5LR I will not purchase it regardless of the hype. I have a DOA for last gen and current gen. Tecmo won't get my money for a new one unless there really truly is something in it for me beyond the temporary high:cautious:
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  7. Sonic Bros 3D

    Sonic Bros 3D Well-Known Member

    I will buy DOA just to support, but i don't want the VF characters back again, each game its roster.
  8. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Really no VF characters in DOA???? Why:confused: I think my first DOA was DOA Hardcore on the PS2 at the same time I was playing VF4. I remember wondering back then what if DOA had Lei Fei and Akira :LOL:

    I thought Team Ninja did a decent job integrating VF characters. It wasn't perfect, move lists were odd here and there, but it seemed all in fun, and it showed Team Ninja's respect for the Virtua Fighter franchise. It certainly improved my opinion of DOA and I think it exposed some ppl in the DOA community to Virtua Fighter for the first time. Keep in mind, not all players are hard core. There were probably thousands of players of DOA who had no idea what Virtua Fighter was, and by exposing some VF characters in DOA we may have picked up a few new players ;)

    TBH I would have liked to see the entire VF roster as guests in DOA. Do you feel that it diminishes either game to have cross over?

    So do I take it that you don't believe the cross over characters were ultimately beneficial for both games?

    Is it possible that VF characters in DOA might have sparked new or different interest in VF, or the other way around? For example I only purchased DOA when I found out there were going to be VF character in it. And as I played other DOA fans, it was interesting and fun to contrast game mechanics between the two games e.g. the DOA hold system vs sabaki, inashi, reversal etc.

    What's the downside of having VF characters in DOA?
    Ares-olimpico likes this.
  9. Sonic Bros 3D

    Sonic Bros 3D Well-Known Member

    DOA can die.

    I don't want VF becomes a cross over fighting game like KOF.

    DOA is so average that even DOA players are looking for VF characters instead of DOA characters...

    Let VF alone and go ask Tekken characters a bit.

    I don't think DOA brings something highly helpful to VF.

    and guest characters = stupid and kill the soul of the original fighting game.

    Just look how not cool anymore are Akuma and Geese Howard because of Tekken, these characters were sick in their original fighting game.

    DOA is not good enough for VF characters to me, it doesn't deserve characters as Akira, Jacky, Pai, Sarah at all.

    VF is godlike, DOA is just ok.

    What a shame to see characters from the legendary Virtua Fighter in Dumb or Awful.

    It should be DOA characters in VF, and not the otherwise.

    Out of my face DOA, nobody care and stay a no hype fighting game.

    Maybe the most boring and unappealing roster of all time.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  10. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    So from your reply I take it you don't like or have any respect for DOA:cool:

    You feel that adding VF characters messed up the soul of the original game in some wayo_O

    And VF characters are too divine to even appear in a DOA game:meh:

    So from that I get that you feel both communities are hurt by VF characters being put in DOA:whistle:


    Have you exchanged your views with many other DOA players? Did most agree with you?

    Do you feel that most of the VFDC community sees it the same way you do:notworthy:

    I might be the odd man out. I'm usually in the minority (in more ways than one). I think VF characters in DOA is a really good idea for several reasons:

    • It has the potential to expose DOA players to Virtua Fighter who might have never heard of VF before, and possibly bring new players to VF.

    • It bridges some technology gaps and begins to lay a technical software/hardware foundation for a potential future where one day characters from many different games can all compete in the same universal tournament platform. e.g. VF characters vs DOA characters vs Tekken characters all in one big universal gaming platform. I'd like to see Lei Fei demolish Feng Wei and Jan Lee all in the same tournament in some neutral gaming platform one that is not VF, Tekken or DOA. I know this may be a little hard to digest right now, but the technology is moving in that direction and crossover characters are helping that along.

    • It has the potential to give Sega fresh ideas and directions for future VF games

    • It has potential to help Team Ninja improve on DOA, by giving them more technical capabilities and ideas. The more high quality fighting games there are, that's good for the whole FG community even VF.

    Of course these are just my opinions I could very likely be wrong:oops:

    But at the very minimum having crossover characters at least gives the gamer more bang for the buck. IMO the more content in a game that I'm being charged $59.99 for with $30 for each season pass the happier I'll be. Even if the all the content is not perfect.

    btw are you any good at DOA? Have you crossed the 2000 fight threshold yet:ROTFL:
  11. Sonic Bros 3D

    Sonic Bros 3D Well-Known Member

    VF doesn't need DOA, VF just needs a new game.

    and no i don't play DOA, i still prefer playing Tekken over DOA, that's how i feel about this game.

    It's not bad but it's not that good too, just look at the 10 jabs by combo, the game is weirdo...
  12. Cmoney

    Cmoney Well-Known Member

    DOA SUCKS ASS...PERIOD.. DOA died after 2 and it can stay dead. A game like DOA 6 will stunt the growth of the genre as a whole, and quite frankly I speak for everyone when I say that people are getting sick DOAs rushed graphic engine and lack of depth as well as lame character concepts that pale in comparison to VF, Tekken or Soulcalibur. Fuck DOA! Even the game’s original creator “Tomonobu itagaki” doesn’t give a shit about it now. What does that tell you??
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  13. JSM

    JSM Member

    at the very least you got more input-lag for your money

    imho Tekken has the by far lamest char concepts out of these games; boxing cartoon midget dinosaur, kangaroos, robots etc etc

    Tekken, DoA, SC have all lost their way; supers, rage arts, reversal edge, teleports, magic weapons appearing out of people's arms, comeback mechanics etc. These non-sensical things are all deal breakers for me, have zero interest in playing fighters with this type of silly bs in them
  14. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    naw man they didn't lose their way, they're just trying to appeal to the biggest possible audience:eek: Once upon a time FG were targeted towards a more hardcore gamer:cry: Now these greedy bastards want to sell it to everyone like it was a mobile app game:mad: So they put in all this S!@# that will make it accessible to gamers and non gamers alike, all the way from baby sue to grandma kettle :mad: Step right up anybody can play anybody can win be the next champion of the iron fist tournament:holla:

    So those serious about FGs will probably have to go back to previous versions to and hold local gatherings:meh:

    I don't know what the classic , best or most technically superior version of Tekken is, but which ever one that is should be made the standard among hardcore Tekken players. And the same should be done for the other FGs.

    Fuck it., I look it at like this., I've already paid my hard earned cash for it, and I'll play which ever version I like best.

    I often have gatherings where my and my mates are playing VF4 evo, and VF5. Its not that I don't like VF5FS its sometimes everybody wants to play an older version. I'm glad I've got copies and machines to run the original stuff on.

    I played SC4 over SC5. I played SC2 over SC4. To me Tekken 4 was playable. Many didn't like it, but from time to time I'll go with it. I've now got Tekken 7 but already I prefer Tekken 6 over Tekken 7.

    From the Game publisher's point of view they rather sell to 3 million ppl than to 300 thousand ppl. So thats why we get rage, rage art, meters, come back mechanics, cartoon midgets, flying babies and all the rest of that crap.

    And there's really nothing we can do, because we'll always be outnumbered by the general buying public. The only thing left is to wait until the general public moves on to some other fad, or some game publisher that is really dedicated to the FG genre produces new games.

    So we should hang on to VF2, VF 3, VF4, VF4 EVO, etc , keep the machines to play them on. organize local gatherings and play the version of the game you and your mates prefer. Its fortunate we still have 2 player versions. Some publishers have removed that option altogether and its either online or nothing.

    Don't let the number of players in the latest online version of some FG game dictate what version the hardcore players play.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  15. Lygophilia

    Lygophilia Well-Known Member

    Highlighted in bold, I agree. Those shouldn't be in every fighting game, but people argue they add depth to it. However, it's really designed for the losing person since day one. I miss the purest form of fighting from those games.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  16. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Silver Supporter

    Agreed, I don't think it necessarily adds depth so much as adds complexity.
    beanboy and masterpo like this.
  17. Lygophilia

    Lygophilia Well-Known Member

    Masterpo, the best I could recommend of something closer to being innovative is ARMS for the Nintendo Switch. It's a different boxer fighting game in 3rd person view that was popular enough to reach the attention of EVO. But that's it, you have your characters to attack with their long arms and among other things. Weird, but the way the developers executed it was interesting to me. That's the only new fighting game I know that they could very well evolve on.
    beanboy and masterpo like this.
  18. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Its kind of complicated really. The FG market is split into several groups.

    Group 1. The hardcore FG that puts in 20,30, 40+ hours a week or have played 10s of thousands of games and for them its all about the competition (for some professional) and for others being on the leader boards, going to tourneys, is what its all about. Buying plane tickets, train tickets, travelling to other countries to battle in their favorite game. Getting better so they can beat some other player, somewhere, anywhere. Or beat all other players everywhere :ROTFL: All this group needs is a 2 player mode and online mode with no lag. In many cases they care little about customizing characters, or single player modes except for (training or dojo mode). This group literally only needs three stages one with out walls, a small stage and a large stage with walls. Point them to where the move lists and frame data are and they're happy.

    Group 2. Casuals who buy the game for story, graphics, animations, the customizations, the cool looking moves, to live their martial arts fantasies out vicariously through their favorite character(s). For this group the more single player and 2 player game modes and game content the better. This group will buy the "art of" type books all about the game, will watch the game anime, are interested in fan art, They know and are concerned about the back story for all the characters. They write wikis about the characters and the pseudo realistic martial arts style that each characters has, all about their birthdays,height, weight, character's country of origin, etc For this group its really not about competition as much as it is about full immersion and fight game fantasy.:LOL:

    Group 3. Is somewhere in the middle. They have some aspects of Group 1 and some aspects of Group 2.

    There are two problems here.

    Problem 1. The entire FG community is small compared to like the number of ppl who are currently playing Forte Night, or FIFA. So game publishers know they might not make the really big money putting out a fighting game.

    Problem 2. Its very hard to make a single game that would satisfy Group 1 and 2. So the Game publisher focuses on the Group where they think they'll make the most money over the long term. This usually fractures the FG community and makes the market even smaller. So its not possible for FG publishers to make the kind of money that Forte Night, or Red Dead Redemption, or Madden make (but of course that what shareholders are demanding)

    So Fight Game Publishers try not to do anything too risky. Like making a brand new fighting game, or innovative fighting game, because they might piss off Group 1, or Group 2, or both and lose money. So whenever a FG publisher puts out another game they stay pretty close to what they always put out, that way they can guarantee at least a certain amount of profit.

    Most ppl on VFDC probably think that Group 1 is the largest and most loyal and should therefore be able to tell SEGA what should be in the next version of VF.

    But in actuality group 2 is the largest (not the most loyal) but the largest and Sega would make the most money by catering to group 2. But producing a game that made group 2 happy would cost 5 times as much as making the game that would make group 1 happy. Making the game that would make Group 2 happy would likely piss off many players in Group 1 (which happens to be the most loyal) So here in lies the dilemma. Satisfy group 1 and make less money but keep loyal customers. Satisfy group 2 make more money, but spend more money and probably lose loyal customers:cry:

    And making some brand new, innovative, potentially risky game, for a market that is already small is just a non starter:( So that is why the FG publishers have basically just been putting out the same stuff for each gen console with relatively minor changes.

    But now, they're robbing, pimping, and squeezing the community through DLC and Season Passes charging in some instances 3 to 5 times as much for basically the same old content in disguise:mad:

    If we see any real innovation or totally new quality FG it will likely be from a game publisher totally new to the FG business.:cool:
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  19. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Yeah. Alot of gamers have said that too. And you have a good point.
    Those odd ball characters, have been in the game, since Tekken 1 and 2.
    The thing is, those crazy odd ball characters, ridiculously over edgy
    characters and clunky, basic level combat and mechanics, is what
    makes Tekken,.........Tekken.

    If they took those crazy characters:
    eg. Bears, boxing kangaroo's, flame farting baby dinosaurs
    and genetically altered boxing dinosaurs etc. out of Tekken,
    then Tekken would literally,........not be Tekken.

    As Harada himself said, "Tekken was never realistic. It was always
    an over exaggerated, over the top fighting game.
    " Which was partially
    based and inspired, by comic book superheroes.

    I mean recently, the guy Harada, even wanted to put, a fighting
    salmon fish in the game. And I think a fighting ice cream cone too. :p:ROTFL:
    I'll be honest, like alot of gamers, I was hoping he did that, because
    I was really curious to see, how that would have looked.
    Their moveslists, character designs etc.

    Obviously, the fillet friendly salmon fish character, would have a
    slap slappy, fin hitting 10 hit combo. Talk about a fish, out of water. :p:ROTFL:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  20. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    I guess this is what it all boils down to, is there are some gamers out there that are totally satisfied with Tekken's direction and encourage Harada to give them more of the same. I just saw the reveal for the Negan and his baseball bat (from the Walking Dead) that has been added to Tekken 7 and there was almost a standing ovation by the crowd:confused: How Negan fits in to Tekken lore from any perspective is a mystery to me. Mishima or G Corporations connection some kind of way:sick: There was already a considerable amount of fantasy in Tekken anyway, I guess Bamco has just decided to pull out all of the stops. Tekken + Street Fighter + Walking Dead * (Rage Art + Rage Drive) = $$$(y)

    We all play games as a form of escapism and make-believe anyway. So what if the Tekken fans like far more fantasy in their games than the VF fans prefer. Non of it is realistic right? And its clear that the Tekken fans clearly don't mind paying $150 - $200 for Tekken 7 on the PS4 and Xbone which is actually less of a game than the $59.99 Tekken 6 was on the PS3 and Xbox. Because Harada and Bamco basically took out a chunk of characters and modes from Tekken 6 added rage art and rage drive called it Tekken 7 charged 120% more for it right off the bat and they are selling the chunk of characters that they took out , back to the Tekken 7 fans in the form of Season Pass 1 $30, Season Pass 2 $30, Season Pass 3 ??? I guess for Season Pass 4 they'll sell the Tekken 7 fans back the modes they removed from Tekken 6 for a cool $30-$50. So for the low low price of approx. $200 you can get the equivalent of Tekken 6 on the current gen with Rage Art and Rage Drive added.

    And the Tekken fans love it. The last Season Pass reveal I watched, everyone was cheering about the fact Bamco was bringing back Julia Chang, Armored King, and Lei Wulong in Season Pass 2. Why da fuck did Bamco take them out in the first place? :mad: Clearly it was so they could sell them back to the fans 2 or 3 at a time. And obviously today's Tekken fans don't see a problem , because when Harada did the reveal of Armored King and Anna, there was joy, ecstasy, elation, and probably some ejaculation :( It did not appear that any of the fans were the least bit angry at the fact that they're being ripped off.

    I FN truly hope this is not what Sega has in store for us and VF6:eek:
    SUGATA likes this.

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