Tekken vs Virtua Fighter (The Game)

I want so badly this game that I at least want to discuss it with the people on the forum... to me it should be a game with 20 characters on each side + one secret character for each. I will put wich characters I think would be the best choices to fight the actual full roaster of Virtua Fighter:

TEKKEN
Jin Kazama
Paul Phoenix
Bryan Fury
King
Armor King
Julia Chang
Eddy Gordo
Ling Xiaoyu
Yoshimitsu
Nina Williams
Anna Williams
Marshall Law
Zafina
Steve Fox
Jack-6
Raven
Asuka Kazama
Lei Wulong
Hwoarang
Wang Jinrei (Secret)
Heihachi Mishima (Final Boss)

VIRTUA FIGHTER
Akira Yuki
Brad Burns
Aoi Umenokouji
El Blaze
Pai Chan
Jacky Bryant
Shun Di
Vanesa Lewis
Jeffry Mc. Wild
Eileen
Wolf Hawkfield
Jean Kujo
Kage Maru
Lei Fei
Lau Chan
Lion Rafale
Goh Inogami
Taka Arashi
Sarah Bryant
Siba (Secret)
Dural (Final Boss)

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GRAPPLING SYSTEM: It refers to the throw / throw escape between Tekken and Virtua Fighter characters. From now on I will use TK for Tekken characters and VF for Virtua Fighter characters.

TK vs VF Throw:
- TK characters will have a harder time trying to throw VF characters in comparison with TK characters because VF characters can only be throw when they're not attacking, or when thet're blocking... that's the way it is in VF.
- VF characters will escape throws the way they do in VF, adapting that to the Tekken System would be P+G to escape left throws f+P+G to escape right throws; to avoid special throws the command will be P+G + the last direction of the throw the enemy uses; for example if King does d,d/b,b+1+2 the throw escape will be (for a VF character) b+P+G. That's the way it is in VF.

VF vs TK Throw:
- VF characters will be able to grab TK characters anytime... sorta, the way it is in TK.
- TK characters will escape throws the usual way in a Tekken game, for that there will be escape commands with 1, 2 and 1+2 (mainly) for every throw VF characters have.

CONCLUSIONS:
- Both VF and TK players wont have to deal with a new escape system, neither they have to change their basic estrategy during a fight because of being afraid of being throw, if you play VF or TK you pick your fighters and you will be able to play with them as usual.
- VF players will notice grabbing TK characters is easier, but at the same time, TK characters will escape their throws more often.
- TK players will notice grabbing VF characters is harder, but at the same time, VF characters probably won't escape their throws as often as TK characters does.
- TK vs TK will find the throw system is just as in a regular Tekken game.
- VF vs VF will find the throw system is just as in a regular Virtua Fighter game.

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REVERSAL SYSTEM: It refers to reversal / reversal escape (chiken) between TK and VF characters, the idea is to remain faithful to both sagas so TK fans feel confortable when picking their characters and the same for VF fans.

TK vs VF Reversal:- There’re reversals in TK you can chiken, and others you can’t. We will only discuss those reversals you can escape like Paul’s.
- VF characters can do chiken acording to their foot position, so they will have to pay attention because acording to the foot position the same attack can be done with the left punch/kick or the right one.
- To chicken they can use F+P+K for left punch/kick and F+P+G for right punch/kick.

VF vs TK Reversal:- Neither of VF reversals can be avoided in any VF game, so, neither TK or VF characters can escape (chiken) a reversal move done by any VF character.

CONCLUSIONS:- VF characters will keep the same playability in wich refers to reversals.
- TK characters will keep the same playability in wich refers to reversals.

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I want to hear opinions about the gameplay and everything you like to post. This is something I'm posting in various forums to gather the opinions and ideas from fans and buid up a basic concept of how the gameplay should be, the plan is to deliver this document to AM2 and NAMCO Banday after I finish this investigation and compilation of ideas.

 

There was a legit petition on IGN by the producer of TEKKEN(Two years ago, I think)To see if the fans wanted to see a crossover. He stated he was good friends with the AM2 guys. So he ask IGN readers if they get enough feedback(signatures)He will pitch the concept to the board members and AM2. I don't know what became of that idea, because both teams were hard at work with their respected franchise, so let's see what happens when SEGA and Namco Bandai finish their products. LINK! The IGN Article. You see towards the end, IGN ask readers to summit e-mails to(IGN)be forwarded to SEGA and Namco Bandai.

 

Now, this is how I think the reversal should work on a Tekken vs Virtua Fighter game.

REVERSAL SYSTEM: It refers to reversal / reversal escape (chiken) between TK and VF characters, the idea is to remain faithful to both sagas so TK fans feel confortable when picking their characters and the same for VF fans.

TK vs VF Reversal:
- There’re reversals in TK you can chiken, and others you can’t. We will only discuss those reversals you can escape like Paul’s.
- VF characters can do chiken acording to their foot position, so they will have to pay attention because acording to the foot position the same attack can be done with the left punch/kick or the right one.
- To chicken they can use F+P+K for left punch/kick and F+P+G for right punch/kick.

VF vf TK Reversal:
- Neither of VF reversals can be avoided in any VF game, so, neither TK or VF characters can escape (chiken) a reversal move done by any VF character.

CONCLUSIONS:
- VF characters will keep the same playability in wich refers to reversals.
- TK characters will keep the same playability in wich refers to reversals.

Please share your impresions, critics and ideas (first post updated).

 

Can we also bring Guilty Gear X and DoA Extreme Volleyball into this?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Include the tech-rolling system from VF. Some of the chain combo system from Tekken(Not those 10hit jump offs)Side Stepping system from VF(OM, DM and ETEG)Rush Down moves from Tekken. A fusion of the Tekken and VF grapple system. No animals. A parry system for certain characters like SC or SF III and Counter system for others.

 

VF has the different weight classes, in TEKKEN there is no difference, everyone floats the the same and there are no character specific combos.
the easiest solution would of couse be to remove the weight classes from the VF chars but thats probably not he best tho /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

 

Good point, ADD weight classes!

 

The easiest way to handle the grapple system is to offer a VF groove and a Tekken groove where all characters fall under that particular approach regardless of a VF or Tekken origin. (Kinda like how Megamix had a VF physics and a Vipers physics option.)

A game with two completely different throw systems depending on the character would feel really inconsistent.

 

Ok... excellent points everyone; ShinobiFist please explain how would you do a fusion between TK and VF grapple system.

I was thinking of something like that Marginal, the Groove idea but for other porpouse... it is an important subject tho. To me the "Groove" would be a full set of options configurable in option mode. Some of those stuff would be the energy chi Tekken characters have in a lot of their moves, and sparks when hit should be an option to put on or off... so VF would have their sparks too if this setting is ON.

The Weight Classes... could be implemented. It is part of VF balance and taking it out of the game would certainly unbalance VF characters, but I think it shouldn't be configurable ON/OFF because that would fuck the game balance.

So, Jack-6 would be very heavy; interesting...

What about the basic Low parry everyone has in Tekken...? should it be available for VF too... or part of the Groove options maybe.

People, something I want to discuss is if you like the selection of characters I have made for Tekken... I took the most realistic, iconic and complex characters, but maybe you have a suggestion.

 

IMHO, no Eddy Gordo. I hate that dude for all time to come.

Give me my boy Wang instead...

AND balance out Dural if she is going to be in there...

I also think VF's throw system is superior so the game should adopt that method of throwing for all characters...

What about the fact that Tekken has more buttons??? How would that work because VF characters don't? Plus, no block button in Tekken. It would be one crazy-ass crossover though, I'll give you that.

 

Lee Chaolan would have to be in the game too. I would not mind this so much if each company made there own versions like Capcom and SNK did.

 

Hey people, I drawed this:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/606740/Select_Screen.PNG.html

Is there anyone willing to do a select screen for me? I would like one with the actual pictures of characters, just like the one I did, with characters on the same position /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Yeap man, I have a couple of ideas for Dural as well, maybe she could be a configurable character... wich mean you could kinda "edit" her moves; what do you think?

Lee Chaolan is very unrealistic and I don't think he would do good as a fighter either...

By the other hand, Eddy is a very important and unique character. If AM2 NAMCO make this game I can asure you Eddy/Christie will be there... still, I could change Dr. Boskonovitch for Wang; how about that?

 

Not including Lily on the Tekken side automatically makes everything else you've said worthless >.>

Also, what is the point of this thread? You can petition Namco/AM2 if you really want (thought it sounds like they've already asked for fan opinions years ago)... but photoshopping imaginary screenshots??? Seriously, do you have nothing better to do?

 

To be honest...? no... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

What I want to do is to gather the opinion of fans over the different aspects of the gameplay of what could be the ultimate crossover. I want to use that information to build a document and send it to AM2 and NAMCO.

To me it would be really awfull having this game and find out it's a bad game, so I wanna try this if that's ok for you...

 

So... what?... you think that a collection of fan ideas are going to be somehow better than what two companies who have been making some of the best fighting games in the entire industry for almost 20 years could come up with?

I mean, seriously, if you think you have a decent idea for a game that you would want to play, then go code yourself up a prototype to prove it if you're serious. But it's basically a waste of your time to send stuff like this to companies that already pay a bunch of designers to come up with better ideas than what someone without industry experience could possibly create...

I mean, honestly, everyone one of your idea's so far can be summed up as "Let VF characters use the VF system, and let Tekken characters use the Tekken, and then create a couple mappings so throw escapes still work, and call it good." It's just not that simple no matter how you look at it. The actual important issues are things like merging the entire game engine, since VF guard is controlled by a button, it's always in effect, and can be used very easily for cancelling and stuff. But Tekken guard is context sensitive, holding back doesn't make you block unless someone's attacking, since otherwise you couldn't ever step backwards. And just mapping complicated VF throw escapes to simpler Tekken throw escapes automatically weakens throws relative to how useful they are in VF... it's potentially a serious balance issue, and your standpoint seems to be "if the controls work, it'll be fine...".

 

Tekken's unblockables could be used as well. It could be based on a block gauge and it could go off after something like a soul crush that would make them somewhat balanced as well.

 

All of the Tekken characters are very unrealistic. Besides Lee is one of the main and most popular characters.

 

Well, Sorias... my idea was just a starting point you know. It isn't about showing my ideas, it is about making the base concept together.

So, yes basically my idea is that VF players feel confortable and don't have do adapt to a whole different system; the same for Tekken players.

Yes, Tekken players would escape a lot more, but at the same time VF players will find easier to grab them... and the opposite will happen to Tekken players, they will find harder to grab VF players, but VF players wont escape as often as TK players. I think it's pretty balanced.

Any ideas...?

Fatal Rose: Who do you think should be taken out of the list to put Lee...? Half of the Tekken roster will be left out of the game man, there's no way to please everyone because there're fans for each one of the players. Still I'm listening to you ok?

I picked the most complex, cool and realistic fighters I could find.

 

This is sort of a pointless statement... the only way to know if it's balanced is through playtesting. Someone's gotta make it, and see if it actually works as intended.

I've actually done enough game design work (not on fighting games), to know this stuff is never as simple as it seems, and I'm well aware any ideas I could come up with would be worthless.

Your assumption still seems to be "Tekken works and VF works, so just combine them and it will still work...". Two rights however, do not always make another right. VF sort of relies on 12-frame punches/14-frame mids/18-frame launchers for the base system... what are move speeds like in Tekken... and if speed varies too much, will it make one cast necessarily stronger? I seriously doubt Tekken uses {12 or 0}-frame throws, but I don't know what it does use. How do you merge those systems without either making fuzzy too strong, or throws too strong, or breaking something else. You're really skipping over everything that's actually important, and the little details like what controls to use for throw escapes are simple balance issues that could be easily sorted out in a playtest.

 

Jack-6 Is one of the dumbest characters ever and is VERY unrealistic. No point in having both King and Armor king either. Just one or the other.