The AM2 Magic and VF6, Its Not That Easy

Discussion in 'General' started by masterpo, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    The Beatles, Big Bang, TLC, Queen, Led Zepplin, Wu Tang Clan, Prince and The Revolution, Boys II Men, The Jackson 5, Onyx, Kiss, The John Coltrane Quartet, Earth Wind & Fire, En Vogue, Bad Plus, The HZett Trio, Zap Mama, and BlackPink are all examples of music groups where the combination of the members make the magic. Its the chemistry between the members in these groups , that certain combination of personalities and talent that just create magic moments in time when these groups were/are at their best. Some of the groups after members left tried to hire replacements. But its just not the same. Not saying that the new versions of the groups became failures its just hard to recapture the magic. Some of the groups are just to old to do what they used to do. In some cases the group members have moved on mentally and emotionally and no longer have the passion so that creating the magic again is just not possible.

    The original Virtua Fighter was released way back in the early 90's around 1993. That was almost 27 years ago. What's the original band even doing now? Are they still even capable of making the magic happen? Where are Yu Suzuki, Takuya Nagayasu Noriyuki Shimoda, Toru Kujiari, Masanori Sato, Tetsuya Sugimoto, Satoshi Fujinuma, Seiji Aoki, Yuichi Matsui, Daichi Katagiri, Hiroshi Masui, Tomonori Shiino, and the rest of the AM2 team?

    The creation of the original Virtua Fighter was almost 30 years ago. And some of the team weren't kids back then. If Virtua Fighter was a mediocre fighting game, then I would say it would be no big deal to replace some of the original designers, programmers, planners, directors etc. But Virtua Fighter is special. It is the quintessential masterpiece. A stroke of genius. Fighting game Magic in the moment. There will never be another Virtua Fighter. The mix of people behind the design, creation and implementation of the Virtua Fighter series were a special blend of people at a certain place, and point in time. It was the specific people in the band that made Virtua Fighter special! Yes I would like to see a VF6, but I want to see one that captures the original passion and magic that the old band had! Nothing is as sad as seeing a band perform that is no longer the band it used to be where members have been replaced, and some members are too old to hit and hold the notes. Even worse, to play in a time where the music has changed and they are only able to poorly play their old hits. That is a sad state of affairs:notworthy:

    I don't know how capable the original AM2 team and Yu Suzuki still are. I hope they're all doing well. They should all be rich by now:holla: But its not as easy to pull off VF6 as we might think.

    Virtua Fighter was and still is a pioneer in Fighting Game history. They were the firsts at lots of things, 3D fighting, trainable AI sparring partners, accurate Announcers, True Fighting Game Character customizations, etc. In the year 2020 or beyond A VF6 should be exploring new potentially unknown territory. It should push the envelope! Not just be a minor upgrade. TBH VF5FS is already a masterpiece. It could simply be released in all future game environments as is and that would be sufficient. Just like the game of chess. There really are no real reasons to change VF5FS unless you're going to make a true step forward. But if there is going to be a new Virtua Fighter, it should be a game changer like the original Virtua Fighter was. It should change the very concept for what constitutes a video fighting game. And I don't know if the original AM2 gang is motivated enough to go back to the drawing board and produce another game changer, miracle, and masterpiece like the original Virtua Fighter.

    In the context of the 2D Fighting games of the time, the original Virtua Fighter was the equivalent of releasing a fun (but realistic) Martial Arts Simulator! If you check back at early advertisements it was even called that at one time. IMO a new Virtua Fighter should raise the bar accordingly for today's fighting games.

    I know I'll get flamed for the following opinions (but that's okay)., A new Virtua Fighter, should innovate in the area of stages and arenas. Perhaps generated in real time (never the same stage twice! Including variable sizes). A new Virtua Fi!ghter engine should start with the kind of engine used in the UFC games and improve for balance. Drop the juggles and floaters (that's 25+ year old FG stuff). New Fighting games (even Arcade Fighting Games) should be trying Fun ways of using UFC FG type physics, dynamic stages, semi open worlds, damage physics, blood physics, stamina physics. New techniques for MoCap. Machine Learning for AI opponents, Adaptive Learning for AI opponents. We can't really be talking about a modern fighting game if we're still doing what we've been doing for the last 25 years!

    I would love to see Virtua Fighter 6 with similar combat as found in EA's UFC 3. OMG! if AM2 could pull that off while keeping the excitement of a VF5FS that would be true innovation. I know most of the VF community don't play the UFC games, but those games have combos too! The UFC combat simulation games have very, very deep fighting mechanics. VF5FS + UFC mechanics would be FN amazing:ROTFL: AM2 could innovate on the tournament modes and event modes that are in the UFC games. Virtua Fighter took 2D Fighting game concepts to a whole new level. A new Virtua Fighter could take UFC fighting games to a whole new level!. But it would take the right mix of people in the right place at the right time to pull it all off. The original AM2 team, place, and time were special. That made Virtua Fighter special.

    You can't just take a bunch of different people and get the same magic, no more than you could get Purple Rain without Prince. I'm not saying the original team can't still produce the magic, it is likely they can. But do they want to? Are they sufficiently motivated to put in the sacrifice, hard work, arguments, disappointments, and drama that goes along with making magic?

    Yea, I would like to see Virtua Fighter 6, but I want to see a game worthy of its Virtua Fighter reputation and prestige. Not some stripped down, hollowed out, fighting game for dummies, full of micro transactions masquerading as a shadow of its former self, insulting previous fans, confusing future fans and shaming AM2.

    If AM2 can't recapture the magic in VF6, then leave well enough alone, and just give us a full version of VF5FS for current gen, and next gen consoles. A simplified Arcade mode of VF5F has already been ported to the PS4 Yakuza so just port the rest of the game so that the fans will always have a version of VF to play on current gen consoles.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  2. Sonic The Fighters

    Sonic The Fighters Well-Known Member

    Not agree.

    Look at KOF, Tekken, KI, DOA, SF, MK... They are all over 20 years franchises.

    Was it exactly the same people who made VF between VF1 and VF5FS ? I don't think so.

    Some say no one is irreplaceable when it's about to get the job done. Proof says that Yu Suzuki wasn't here with VF5.

    I'm not for an UFC game too ... I want VF to stay a pure SEGA japanese arcade game.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    masterpo likes this.
  3. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    You're right!!! They are all over 20 years and for most hardcore players of each of those franchises feel things have got worse!!! Many Tekken players hate Tekken 7 compared to Tekken 6, Many MK players feel that the game was better in earlier versions. DOA5LR was clearly better than DOA 6.

    Today's trends with making games involves removing features from previous versions of the game, putting those features behind paywalls and micro transactions in the next version of the game. Dumbing down the game to try to appeal to the greatest possible market, and cutting corners everywhere they can be cut:cautious:

    Today's video game design is being driven by shareholders, financial optimization algorithms, cognitive psychology exploitation strategies (whale mechanics). If Sega were to make a VF6 they would be forced to follow 'best practices' that everybody else is doing. This would be a disaster for Virtua Fighter. Even if they could get the old gang back together for one last hoorah I would be very worried about the damage that could be done to VF.

    My friend we are all VF fans. We all would like to see VF6 come and be at least as good as VF5FS. We all want that:holla: But none of us wants to see VF take a big step back:cool:

    Just look at all the new fighting games(Tekken7, DOA6, MK, etc) compared to their previous versions. They all take 1 step forward in one area and 2 or 3 steps backward in some other area. That's the trend!! Make the game as cheap as you possibly can. Cut back on features. Resell the features you cut back on, and then try to get the gamer to pay a monthly or yearly subscription fee. I don't want VF6 on these terms:eek:

    Right now I regularly play VF4, VF4EVO, VF5, and VF5FS. I play mostly with friends and family. Sure I would like to see new characters or stages, but not at the expense of fucking up the game.

    BTW have you ever played UFC Undisputed 3 or EA's UFC games? You don't like combat simulator games? If you're all about fighting I would think you would like the UFC games they have somewhat realistic:

    Muay Thai
    Brazilian Jujitsu

    Yes VF is a Arcade Fighting Game and the UFC games are combat simulation games. So you're right they are very different. But don't you think it might be possible for Sega to take the best of both kinds of fighting games and come up with a brand new fighting game experience;) Or are you saying you are not interested in any new innovations in arcade fighting games?

    Or are you saying that the kind of mechanics that have just been added to Tekken (i.e rage art, rage drive, etc), DOA6, or SC6's new mechanics should be added to Virtua Fighter:mad:
    Sonic The Fighters likes this.
  4. Sonic The Fighters

    Sonic The Fighters Well-Known Member

    Just saying, Sonic Mania is a good example.

    Another example, 20 years ago Lizuka mades the godlike Sonic Adventure games. Then 20 years later the same guy Lizuka mades the garbage Sonic Forces...

    But i think with money almost everything is possible in this world, even a good VF6 !

    Yu Sukuzi should come back to this legendary franchise with a solid budget.
  5. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer"

    inb4, VF6 will disappoint most of you all. I for one will be pleased but I'm 100% many folks here are going to hate it.
  6. Sonic The Fighters

    Sonic The Fighters Well-Known Member

    I would support a new VF 100% !

    I would buy this game on PC, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch, Stadia, ...

    It just has to be as good as the previous VF games.

    Give me a Virtua Fighter with a fresh art style and new costumes, give me a VF game with 2020 graphics and 4k.

    SEGA we need VF in our lives !
  7. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Same here guys. I support a new VF game. But not a crappy, toned down/watered down VF game.
  8. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer"

    no matter what they do it’ll feel this way when it first comes out. People hated FS and vanilla for so long. Every new version goes through this cycle.
    beanboy and masterpo like this.
  9. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    You're probably right. But the only problem I ever had from version to version is when they dropped features.

    For example:

    • they dropped team battle from VF 3TB when they went to VF4
    • they dropped the trainable AI from VF4 when they went to VF4 EVO
    • they dropped a great tutorial mode and underground tournaments between VF4EVO and VF5
    • they dropped Quest Mode, Single Player Win/Loss counts and PR statements from VF5

    There are others who criticized changes in the fighting engine. But my criticisms all related to dropping game modes or major features from the game.

    If AM2 just brought back all the features they dropped a gave us a game called
    Virtua Fighter the Ultimate Edition

    Trainable AI
    Team Battle
    Underground Tournaments
    Kumite Mode
    License Mode
    Challenge Mode
    Quest Mode
    VS Mode Player Profiles (via usb sticks)
    Online Lobbies
    Online Tournament Mode
    Score attack
    Arcade Mode

    Some of these modes can be sold as DLC so that if you don't want them you don't have to have them. VF has a online community, it has a two player community (that don't go online), it has a single player community, it has a arcade community. The best Virtua Fighter would take care of each of its communities. They literally don't have to give us anything new, just give us all of the old stuff and put it in one game:ROTFL:
    beanboy, Tricky and Ares-olimpico like this.
  10. Ares-olimpico

    Ares-olimpico Well-Known Member Content Manager Lion

    AI's downloadbles of others players, free or dlc for some AI's of Start Player
    With a very good AI you can play versus the World 24/7/365
    masterpo and jimi Claymore like this.
  11. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Yeah. That was such a silly thing to do.
  12. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Dude. In this day and age, don't give sega any silly ideas, about paid for DLC, and microtransactions. Lol!:p
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Tricky and jimi Claymore like this.
  13. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Oh no, I didn't bring up micro transactions:ROTFL: And they already did the DLC thing with VF5FS, so I'm not giving them any ideas they don't already have. I despise micro transactions. I hate DLC. But in this rare very rare case. If some paid DLC will help a possibility of VF6 I'd at least consider it:( But if it has micro transactions I would not buy it no matter how good it was.:mad:
    beanboy likes this.
  14. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Po I read your first post and the title. You have a point there.

    Can the magic of VF, be recreated again, in VF6?
    And after all of these years, does Yu Suzuki and the others, moreso Yu Suzuki, still have the magical VF game making skills, they had years ago?
    I think that's on alot of VF fans minds. And I think that's what worries them too.

    Me, I think Yu Suzuki and crew, still have it.:D
    But let's hope, Yu Suzuki and those old guys, have confidence in themselves, and can still do it. And bring back and recreate that magic.(y)
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019

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