The CPU in VF3tb (DC)

One word describes it in a nutshell...wack! I can't stand
it even on hardest. It falls for the the same lame sh!t
over and over again (ppp delayed crescent kick/sweep with
Lau), and it generally just pisses me off. It turtles like
no other when it wants to, and will escape throws no matter
how well you mix them up. Don't get the wrong idea, I can
beat it, but it's just NO fun. Out of all the fighters I
own VF3tb wins the most retarded AI award hands down. It's
ironic considering I feel it's the best fighter the I have
in terms of gameplay. It just isn't right.


Bent-Lee (in desperate need of comp)


"Granted my brother, we're good, but people can
still see us."

 

the dc doesn't learn like the arcade ai..and all of my arcade boards have evolved into "i'm gonna fuck you up, bitch" skill. it's still hardly a substitute for real human competition, but it can be interesting. it's gotten to the point where it'll counter blocked moves with throws, and i can "practice" option select stuff on it. it's really brutal. i can't screw around on it; if i do, i'm not likely to get past stage 3 or 4. shun, lion, wolf and sarah are particulary bitchy, for some reason.


--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

You can use the AI in the DC version to help you work on some techniques... Unfortunately, you can't really explore many flowchart options because it usually relies on about maybe 3 responses sometimes... As far as I know it rushes you after P(G) as well.

However, what I have been able to do when I feel like it is if I whiff a move (say Lion's PPP or something like that, though I may not use it much) I practice throw escape options... I've particularly been pretty good at G-DTE in such situations against the CPU. However, it is against the CPU... Also, because it is the CPU, bad habits are still common... Heck, I could get used to escaping Jacky's f,f+P+G just because the CPU does it when very few decent human players do it (unless they are doing it as an element of surprise).

Well, what I can tell you is try to get the most out of it. It won't teach you everything you need to know by a longshot, but at least you can set yourself up to situations where you have to react and realize that the computer will at least train you a bit on how to handle some people that might handle things similarly. That doesn't mean you should always win, sometimes just try to create a situation and keep in mind that you created this, you'll probably run into it unexpectadly or with little intuition in a real match... anyways, this is just my thinking and how I've been trying to train with the CPU when there are no human opponents around (fortunately it's not too much the case anymore *phew*).

-Chanchai

 

I've particularly been pretty good at G-DTE in such situations against the CPU

G-DTE after whiffed PPP?

Impossible....unless you are a command machine like Adam. Besides G-TE after PPP is not really recommended....it's almost like you're making sure that someone will throw you.

 

Well, it was done as more of a drill, but yeah, I got it working pretty efficiently (especially since computer likes to favor certain sets of throws per computer).

The PPP was more of for that reason actually, just like doing d K, K G-->G-DTE. Again, it was done more of as a drill because if I whiff, computer will almost always go for a throw so I practiced it one day and got pretty good at it. If it did a regular throw, escaped; if it did a throw that ended in the second throw escape command, escaped; if it didn't do anything or it attacked, guard animation (though a bit slower than normal am I right?). Seemed to work pretty well for me. However, it's not something I've worked into practical play because it's not quite my focus, but I've popped it in here and there. But again, I started doing it with drilling by doing those guaranteed to get thrown situations. Hence PPP (I try to do more PP or just something else, computer isn't really nice for practicing flowchart options like I said). As far as I can tell, I don't see how a G-DTE is really that much different than doing a DTE, all it seems to entail is letting go of P real quick after the second escape input, though that makes it almost 3 sets of simultaneous button pressing, I just treat it like two (mentally anyways). Am I misunderstanding something?

Don't worry, it was more of a side activity than something I work so hard to incorporate into my play 100% (I acknowledge that my VF focus and thought process in the heat of battle is not yet developed to actually process using this on the spot when I see a big whiff and know my opponent well enough), but in situations where I'm in long recovery from an attack or blocked, if I'm gonna do a DTE, might as well do G-DTE unless I intend to do something else.

That's just the way I've been thinking, so let me know if I seem confused about something./images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, while Andy was training me at NYG2, he introduced the E-GTE to me. Seemed pretty easy after awhile (if you're itent on doing it anyways, which I don't know if that really comes often in the heat of human competition) and I felt I had a knack for it. We practiced it quite a bit for a few minutes.

Oh yeah, whenever I did miss it seemed to be attributed to the computer actually delaying the throw (didn't think the CPU did that, but it was like almost a full second after the last P).

Don't know about anyone else, but commands like DTE and stuff within a small amount of consecutive hits seems to be not that much of a problem for me... However, it's the bigger sequences incorporating guardcancels and what not that usually give me a hell of a time (like many of Lau's combos as far as I can tell). oh well...

-Chanchai

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 9/14/00 09:01 AM.</FONT></P>

 

Im pretty sure that G-DTE (double throw escape ---> guard) is NOT possible. Just G-TE. You would most definitely get a whiff animation if you tried G-DTE. I'll ask the "other" walking gamest (Hiro-kun) about this.....

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Im pretty sure that G-DTE (double throw escape ---> guard) is NOT possible. Just G-TE. You would most definitely get a whiff animation if you tried G-DTE.

why one and not the other? Is it simply a matter of having enough
buffer space?

GE

 

>>Im pretty sure that G-DTE (double throw escape ---> guard) is NOT possible. Just G-TE. You would most definitely get a whiff
animation if you tried G-DTE.

>why one and not the other? Is it simply a matter of having enough
buffer space?

i have to agree with GE here. i don't see what is so hard about gDTE after PPP if you can do gTE. it's just a matter of buffer time, and i think the last P (esp. for lion) gives you plenty of time, plus the fact that all inputs have to be completed in a certain amount of time (ten frames i think was the unofficial rule-of-thumb). however, you really shouldn't be whiffing the last P if you see the first and esp. the second P in the can whiff already unless it's after a delayed can, which i could see happening. (basically, don't throw the last P out if you already whiffed the other punches in the can!). now in the case of a blocked P ending in a can, i think gDTE may be more reasonable since some P cans are throw-counterable if blocked.


// clopin
join #vfhome on the EFnet IRC network

 

Oops...my mistake...I thought you (Chanchai) were trying to do E-G-DTE after a whiffed PPP (which is not recommended).

And to clarify the matter, both G-DTE and E-G-DTE are possible. I usually stay away from E-G-DTE, however, as having a possibility of escaping PG throw while risking the proper execution of remaining E-G-TE is not worthwhile.

G-TE is somewhat dangerous though. Because the technique is quite useful, players including myself, tend to rely on it too much. And just like any other stuff in VF, there always is something to beat the technique. So...a little while ago, I started trying to pay attention on what I'm doing and mix up with Attack-TE, G-DTE, G-TE, and E-G-TE.

 

Thanks for all the input.

As for PPP, again, I don't use it much at all, it was a practice thing. It's hardly in my game unless my mind is really tired and I want to get very little guaranteed damage (if I see the first hit). I'll admit that I did it occasionally a few days ago, but like three days ago I was chatting to some old Lion players and they told me that it was unadvisable because there are simply better options (stylish as well as practical). Point taken, it's almost eliminated from my play/images/icons/smile.gif But I figured since there was that recovery window, I might as well practice it on the computer as it was something that entices the computer to throw. Maybe it would be wiser to practice it if my FC, f P happens to get blocked? Anyways, I really do appreciate what's been said on this thread.

I take it G-DTE is something that is only possible following an evade or a blocked/whiffed move with a pretty long recovery.

Along this topic, what do some of you guys tend to do when you notice that you've just whiffed a throw? (My mind does it spot it immediately unless it feels like I'm about to do something really stupid).

-Chanchai

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 9/14/00 04:59 PM.</FONT></P>

 

I remember the site owner of http://nucleus.room.ne.jp/ saying that there is NO "learning" of AI in VF3 series. Instead he took an effort to make the AI gradually stronger as if it's learning...to our eyes at least.

Granted...arcade AI is clearly stronger/smarter and more fun (however slightly...playing against CPU) than DC version's AI.

 

now that you bring that up i can believe it. vf3 doesn't mimic human play like the vf2 expert mode clearly did, which definately "learned". fr'instance vf2 EM kage would try, and fail, to do TFT knee, among other noticeable patterns.
also, if that's true then the ai increases in skill depending on how good the players are (judging from time it takes to win and combos used), not necessarily over time. i wiped clean the memory on my board and it was back to stupid for a few hours only. it also gets pissed off if it loses badly; i'll win using a sick combo and/or within a few seconds or so, and the next round it's just a horrid little hellbeast cpu.
it'll also slack off if you lose to it.

ugh. i really need real human competition.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"