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The Hit Confirm Podcast Episode 20

Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, Oct 10, 2020.

By Myke on Oct 10, 2020 at 6:53 PM
  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    virobloc, Ellis, Tricky and 4 others like this.


Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, Oct 10, 2020.

    1. MrAnnual
      Thanks so much for putting us on your site!
      Tricky, MarlyJay, Feck and 2 others like this.
    2. archangel
      really really enjoyed this podcast. Well done guys
      Tricky, BLACKSTAR and MarlyJay like this.
    3. Tricky
      Thanks for having me on the podcast @MrAnnual and to @Myke for putting it on the site! Glad so many folks liked the discussion too.
      Myke likes this.
    4. Myke
      Finally got around to listening to this. Thanks to @MrAnnual (turn up your mic volume!) and Casey(?) for reaching out, and great job @Tricky on repping the VF community!

      Just one point that I wanted to comment on was about your view on Offensive Moves (OM). You suggested it might have been SEGA's way at addressing the issue of sluggish movement, but felt "unfinished" or like "the start of a new idea". But then you later linked it to the Side Turned state and repositioning, and that's what OM is really all about, IMO.

      OM is a great tool to reposition yourself in the ring after knocking down your opponent, or exposing the opponent's side if they're frozen in a defensive mindset. So from that point of view, I don't necessarily think it's "unfinished".

      OMs were first introduced in VF5 vanilla, and you also had an option to "OM attack" with [P] or [K]. OM [P] could be used to produce back staggers after someone would quick rise or tech roll from an unsafe position, and OM [K] could back crumple as a whiff punish if you managed to get completely around your opponent.

      Other minor comments:
      • Muay Thai: Brad is all about the Muay Thai! Even his official attack names are legit MT techniques in Thai.
      • Brazlian Jiu Jutsu: Vanessa's takedown and ground game in Offensive Style is a pretty decent representation in VF, no? Thought it'd at least be worth a mention!
      Ellis and Tricky like this.
    5. Tricky
      The sideturn addition to OM only came into play in the FS version though. In vanilla it really didn't feel all that great outside of OMP during tech rolls. In FS with the sideturn property, it came into some real usefulness but it doesn't feel complete imo. It feels more like they shoehorned it into usefulness with sideturn rather than it being made for sideturn itself (i.e. it exited before sideturn was a thing). I hope they figure out a more interesting use for it in another game if they even keep it. I suspect it will disappear.
    6. Stl_Tim
      The idea of sideturned in Martial Arts comes from gaining the blind spot or shikaku. It usually is gained after a sabaki or deflection to a deep irimi/dash. I see where they were going with this idea and what could be added to it for more layers.
      BLACKSTAR likes this.
    7. Myke
      For sure, the sideturned game in FS was amped up considerably, and with hindsight it's evident that vanilla was used as the initial prototype. However, in vanilla, you could still use OM for positioning, or convert a successful DM into an OM [K] to side or even back crumple as whiff punishment. So, it had more utility outside of being an anti-tech roll tactic.

      Can you elaborate on where you feel it isn't complete? What do you think is missing?
      Tricky likes this.
    8. Tricky
      I wish they had kept the converting the DM into an OM in FS. I don't know why they got rid of that.

      I think it's missing functionality outside of gaining sideturn or getting reposition during oki when in point blank distance. There's this critical range you need to be close enough for the side turn to even take effect and if you're outside of that you get literally nothing and it looks weird. It doesn't really fit into the RPS in a clear way either. If it gave sideturn and evaded attacks from positive frames then it'd feel better to me, but there's almost no reason to use it outside of some very character-specific esoteric situations. I don't think a system mechanic should be working that way. I got other examples but that's like the starting point to why I don't feel like OM was a finished mechanic, almost like how the dodge button in VF3 was unfinished compared to what evade became in VF4. Perhaps a more apt word is inconsistent, or even more harshly, buggy. It feels buggy to interact with and not in a fun way.

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