The Matrix

A thousand layers, a million stories and an almost infinite forum of discussion.

I'd love to see what differnt people make of The Matrix movies, how they've affected their lives, religious parallels, philosophical teachings...even killing sprees that have been blamed on The Matrix movies (fellow Brits may be aware of the recent program Tha Matrix Defence in Channel 4). Let's get as many people involved as possible, follow through points of discusssion and generally make this a post something that could be classified as a 'comprehensive guide' of sorts towards The Matrix and the points it raises.

Now that the entire trilogy has been completed, along with The Animatrix and even the Enter The Matrix video game, this seems to be a great time to open such a discussion.

Bring to the table what you've found out, what you've made of various aspects of the Matrix, and anything you think may have been overlooked. Let's weave threads in and out and build up from a small talk pot to a huge conversation between Virtua Fighters around the world.

Let's make this work.

 

I think its a lot of mindles drivel, a hodge podge of rubish that for most people seems deep since it simply doesnt make any sense

 

BUAHHAAHHAHAHAH, for once I agree with you fishster.

 

I'd say you would be smart enough to know that the first Matrix thread wasn't limited just to Revolutions...try posting there like you have in the past...or link us with some matrix forums in stead of making one on a Virtua Fighter site...
http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=tecmo&Number=90796&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

 

Matrix 1 was cool. Matrix 2 and 3 weren't all that. I found part 3 hilarious. It's like watching a cool version of the bible, lol (no offense to any believers). I laughed a lot watching part 3. Lets point them out:

Dragonball fights in the end.
Agent smith bit and the cookie talk.
slow mo of Smith getting punched.
Neo having a Cross when getting that power.
That long ass dying scene between Trin and Neo
The ending
and my fave of all was when Neo says, Trin fly up into the clouds! Then Trin sees the sun and goes "it's beautiful" then they dive right back into the mayhem, lol. Thats the kinda thing I's expect from Looney toons! not in a serious film.

Oh man, I wanna watch it again, there must be more thing I laughed about. Infact my personal opinion is if it weren't for Smith, the film woulda been a flop.

And I think it's funny that ppl are tryin gto play this in real life but not funny to the point where it's going overboard i.e killing.

 

It's great that you decided to respond, but really, that thread is more focussed on whether or not the sequels were good or bad and why...although I want this thread to incorporate some of that stuff, I'd also like to get some input from those that liked it and/or those that want to contribute philosophical, religious and socio-political issues raised by the movies. I reckon that the post you recommended (which I myself have posted on multiple times in defence of the sequels) could stay here on this thread as a link to those who are interested in it, but I reckon that the "general bitch fest" should now be out of the way (believe me, the movies got more of a slagging than was worth) and I hope it will now be possible to movie onto the deeper aspects of the movies, and not just "ooh, the sun part was so camp"-type comments, if you catch my drift.

Plato's cave, Jean Bauldriard, Ghost In The Shell, The Terminator, John Woo, Philip K. Dick...I'd really like it if people would start disussing stuff like this now. Naturally I can't force anyone, but let's at least give it a go. Read around, let us know what you've found and let's get a healthy discussion going here.

Ta.

 

Simply said after 3 movies running straight on a downhill slide, not everyone still has the same enthusiasm about the matrix as you do. How I see it is that the while had "potential" for many, ended up being a cheap marketing ploy that cheated the fans out of their money. Examples include: enter the matrix, animatrix, multiple releases of the original dvd, and eventually the movies itself.

The whole concept of the matrix, could have been finished in 2 movies, instead you get 2 half assed sequels with a lot of useless sequences. Like Links substory completely contributed to nothing. That captain who existed for the sole purpose of challenging Morpheus. The rave scene. That annoying kid who had no effect to the plot. That screaming guy should of opened the gate and then died, instead of incorparating the annoying kid. Usually annoying characters are put in to emphasize the badassness of another character, none of which he did. And theres plenty more to list. Eventually leading to a third movie that should of never been created if 2 solid movies were made, which gives you the death of the actress of the oracle and another half assed explanation.

But ultimately this leads to my point, what philosophical bullshit is there to discuss. The fact that Neo is basically god in a code based world, He can deconstruct agents by deassembling code and rearrange the physics of the world to how he sees fit (as seen in the first movie), yet kungfu is the medium of choice? Wheres the logic in that. Why people read so much into the matrix is beyond me, any references made were so blatant that there isnt much to discuss. Ultimately it was the fans that got cheated, and the ones that still defend it are stubborn to change their opinion of something that they advocated as the next great thing in years past.

If you want to discuss philosophy on a movie of a similar genre, go watch Dark City. It does everything the matrix does plotwise, with better cinemetography, and less special effects to save the film and done years earlier. On a lighter note, ill bring these up again that emphasizes my point loosely =P

matrix reloaded abridged
Tron + Bible = Matrix
Matrix = computer geeks star wars.

 

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to discuss philosophy on a movie of a similar genre, go watch Dark City . It does everything the matrix does plotwise, with better cinemetography, and less special effects to save the film and done years earlier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good choice, I should really watch that film again.

 

Hahaha good post and killer link dude.

 

Phoenix...each movie builds on the first, and Enter The Matrix and The Animtrix were expemplary (for God's sake...did you not see how they interacted with the movies or something?)...perhaps the "downhill slide" you refer to is in your own understanding of the movies as they progress? And as for The Matrix Revisited (I don't see how that's a "multiple release of the original DVD" - it's basically hours worth of documentation of the movie with some kewl special features - long live the hidden jukebox!), it's the most comprehensive guide to any movie EVER, with only the T2 Ultimate Edition even coming close.

Perhaps the Matrix concept could have been finished in 2 movies, but dude...missing out on playing Enter The Matrix, a reduced freeway scene, a reduced Neo Vs. 100 Smiths fight, a reduced Zion experience (rmember, THIS is what it was all about, and yet people complain when they finally see theinner workings of Zion...I thought that the rave scene, with the great Fluke soundtrack backing it was pure class..."check it out, you can totally see their nipples!"). As for Kid, he was significant because he was the only person ever to have been able to self-substantiate himself...in the Animatrix episode, Kid's Story, we see how, on approaching death, he manages to wake himself up due to sheer will power and belief. It is this belief ("Neo, I believe!") that gets him both out of the Matrix, AND helps him save the day...with a little help from the dying captain (oh how Mifune rocked...he could be your grandfather and still kick your arse!). Oh, and someting else...your "half assed explanation" for the Oracle's change due to Gloria Foster's death was NOT half assed...you come up with a better reason. Besides, it was always in the script that the Oracle was to change form, but due to Gloia's death, you tell me how they were gonna show that?

Dude, what movie have you been watching? Neo is NOT "God in the Matrix"! That's the whole point! At the end of the first movie, we see a man drunk with power. He has a certain level of ability, but even after that, "he's just a man" because "The One is just another system of control". As for "Kung Fu being the medium of choice" in the sequels and not in the first...dude, stop it and watch the friggin' movies again...at the end of the first movie, he stops bullets with his mind because they are inanimate objects with no will of their own. However, when Smith gets pissed off and comes ofter him...out comes the super-kung fu!! D'uh!! He DID block all of his hits and side-kick him. As for "disassembling code and rearranging physics" he can only do with LIMITED capacity and control. Notice the fluctuations in the program and a potential vulnerability as Neo has to stabalising it after Smith's disassembly. If he were to do this to all the other Smiths, God only knows what other "imprinting" havoc it would cause the Smith program..furthermore, I don't think he could handle stabalising the Matrix a hundred times. THINK, THINK, THIINK!!!!! That's what you seem to be to afraid to do!!!! I hope the explanation is no longer "beyond [you]" and believe me when I tell you that there are many aspects which are not "so blatant that there isn't much to discuss". But that's for another post.

Oh, and Dark City rocks.

 

here we go

case 1. "multiple release of the original DVD"

we have
1. The Matrix
Letterboxed [R] 144min (Warner Home Video)
2.The Matrix
Collectors Edition Letterboxed Platinum Collector's Box [R] 144min (Creative Design Art)
3. The Matrix
Collectors Edition Letterboxed Deluxe Collector Box Set [R] 144min (Creative Design Art)
4.The Matrix
Collectors Edition Letterboxed Deluxe Edition Signature Series Set; MORATORIUM [R] 144min (Creative Design Art)

Yes they are all different products in different price ranges for the original movie. no joke look here I was mostly reffering to multiple rehashes of the original. Which sucks for the fan that finally though they bought the ultimate edition only to have another one released months later (cough xmen 1.5).

case 2. Was enter the matrix really necessary,

Dave Perry hasnt made a good game since the original earthworm jim. Exclusive footage is the only reason most people played, and bullet time sucked which ironically made the original matrix famous in SFX. I rather not play follow the arrows game that treats me like an idiot. Oh not to mention the very poor programming.

Case 3. the rave scene
Long boring and fanservice. Reloaded caters to its fans who presumably computer nerds, a majority of which listen to trance. I despise trance, but if segmented in a movie, I dont mind too much, or if its background to some action i dont mind. Instead we see no action, bunch of people dancing, and something of a love scene for the whole duration of the song ?!?!! Please get that shit outta here and back to the editing room, im sure <1 minute of dancing can get the message across if the emphasis was the love scene. Instead of look at us Watchowski incorporate rave into our movies.

Case 4. The animatrix and the kid

Ill admit half the animatrix was alright, but was the product really necessary to be released. For the millions of people who probably never watched it, then watched reloaded, they're like whos this fucking annoying kid. It was probably some staff members cousin whos a huge matrix nerd that had to be in the film. The kid IS worthless, you need to think of the movies as stand alone products, as great films should be, not something thats supported by marketing frenzy.

Case 5. The oracle
This was brought up in another thread. Directors like oh shit our actress died. Lets go pick another old african american women to replace her. Please do not insult the audiences intellegence. If i had control, I would of had a kid replace the oracle showing rebirth.

case 6. Neo as God
If you know your christianity, Jesus is god. Neo = messiah = campy cross burned in chest (sorta =) jesus = god. If you wanted to talk philosophical please atleast know that fact. But you took my wording too literally. I meant god like. If staring at someone and decompiling their very being isnt god like . . .

case 7. Kung Fu being medium of choice
I forgot to mention this, but kungfu being medium of choice screams action movie not philosophical. Now to the point. You disproved yourself. quote "As for "disassembling code and rearranging physics" he (neo) can only do with LIMITED capacity and control." Now if the machines or smith clearly know that fact, couldnt they just overwhelm neo by logic with enough objects that go beyond his control. Why bother with kungfu? because its an action movie silly, not the almighty philosophical beast people claim it to be.

case 8. More shit i like to bring up.
I love how in the end the computer world somehow "struck a bargain" with neo "to tolerate zion". And at the end the architect says "what do you think i am human?" I love how the machine world "logic" works. Shit I wish my computer could "compromise" with me, instead of binary logic of, will work and not work.

If i missed anything, point it out, im sure to respond. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

oh and [ QUOTE ]
THINK, THINK, THIINK!!!!! That's what you seem to be to afraid to do!!!! I hope the explanation is no longer "beyond [you]"

[/ QUOTE ] personal insults ?!?!?! Please, what happened to intellegent discussion /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

To be totaly honest with you, I had no idea that these special editions even existed (but now that I do, I'll be sure to buy as many of them as possible /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif), so sorry about that...and yeah, X1.5 pissed me off too.

As for ETM...well, can't blame the Wachowskis for trying! Okay, so maybe it wasn't as good as, say, virtua Fighter or something, but it really wasn't that bad. To be honest, I really quite enjoyed it and I thought that the hacking aspect of the game totally rocked, along with all the other hidden features. i just wish that the footage could be made available outside the game as well. Why are you complaining about the whole 'follow the arrow' stuff? I thought that was turned off on the higher difficulty levels? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Well, I love trance, and I'm not even a "computer nerd", but you really should check out some of Fluke's less mellow material (Absurd is a personal fave, and the Whitewash mix totally rocks). Yeah, I see your point that they could have had more story to back that scene, but even then, I reckon it added to the ambience of Zion and the kind of visceral atmosphere they were trying to convey about the last remaining humans. I mean, if that scene was conveyed in a comic book, no-one would complain, and since comics are one of the main influences on these movies, I don't see what all the fuss is about quite frankly. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

One aspect of the matrix sequels was the idea that they were supposed to be "told on multiple mediums" according to Joel Silver in order to create a unique entertyainment experience. As a result, the "stand alone movies" theory only applies for mainstream audiences...and the Matrix isanything but mainstream, I'm sure you'll agree. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for the Oracle, she wasn't "reborn" - her shell was simply altered.

According to Christianity, yes, God came to earth in the form of Jesus, and Neo is indeed God-like, but no, he didn't just disassemble Smith's code by "staring at [him]". He had to physicaly jump into him and then mess around with his code (not to mention restabalise the Matrix program in his vicinity immediately after). Neo is not EXACTLY Jesus...it's just that his general purpose as a savious of mankind matches the description of Jesus in general.

Okay, you could criticise the machines' intelligence, but as for trying to "overwhelm Neo...with enough objects that go beyond his control"...well, did you miss the part where neo stopped all those bullets? Objects are no problem for The One. He's got that one in the bag.

The nature of choice, the illusion of choice, questioning purpose, defining purpose, balance, Yin and Yang, chaos theory, relatvity, Plato's cave, Simulacra and Simulation, a totalitarian government? How many movies can you name me that deal with these topics and more? It's a short list. A VERY short list. Therefore, the answer is a resuonding 'yes'...these movies are indeed "philosophical beasts" as you so adequately put (on a humourous note, I accidentally typed an 'r' before the 'e' in 'beasts').

As for the idea of "compromise" and the fact that your computer won't do it...the reason is that you computer is not artificially intelligent, unlike the machines. Furthermore, the Architect program is designed to be boring and drab...his only "purpose" is do program the Matrix and ensure its functionality. As the Oracle might say, "I thought you'd have figured that out by now". /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hehe...yeah, and I really wasn't dissing you...if you read it a little better, it was you I was quoting. It was YOU ("because of YOU Mr. Anderson, because of YOU" - I love the way Smith insists on calling him Mr. Anderson even now! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif) who said that it was "beyond me" and I was just hoping that you understood it a little better in the advent of my explanation...in much the same way as I do now. After all, you can't expect me to show NO passion, surely? I'm just so fed up with almost everyone slagging these movies off? Do you have any idea what it feels like to defend something that almost nobody else believes in?

Thanks for the response Phoenix. I hope you send me another one. Happy Virtua Figting mon ami! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

P.S.
Is 'letterbox' basically referring to the 16:9 widescreen as opposed to the anamorphic one?

 

quote
"'follow the arrow' stuff? I thought that was turned off on the higher difficulty levels?"
after beating it once, is it really worth playing at a higher difficulty level. In my case not even worth finishing the game.

quote
"and since comics are one of the main influences on these movies, I don't see what all the fuss is about quite frankly"
Comic book panels of landscaping scenes do not last around 5 minutes to a repetitive bass beat. And comic books have that nice feature of fast fowarding through panels on non interest.

quote
"told on multiple mediums"
sure expanding the story to multiple mediums is a great idea, but having to support the movies was a poor choice, supporting a frivolous character as the annoying kid was even poorer. In comparison the original starwars trilogy, did expand through different mediums, mostly books during its time, yet the movies stand alone without the needs of the books. Which brings up the question, as much time as the matrix sequels wasted, why is the important information on different mediums?

quote
"As for the Oracle, she wasn't "reborn" - her shell was simply altered"
Im sure after being hunted down, and then having to come back in a different form classifies as being reborn enough. Which is beside the point, that the 2nd oracle was a poor casting choice and could of had a better script base.

quote
"Neo is not EXACTLY Jesus"
destroying agent smith in the first movie, seems excorcism like.
Bringing trinity back from the dead, ressurection,
Psuedo walk on water scene when he is blind.
Loosely the repetitive quote of He is the ONE he will save us.
and the most obvious Cross burned on the chest.
How much more obvious do you need to be?

quote
well, did you miss the part where neo stopped all those bullets? Objects are no problem for The One. He's got that one in the bag."
STILL CONTRADICTS YOUR OTHER QUOTE
"As for "disassembling code and rearranging physics" he (neo) can only do with LIMITED capacity and control."
Isnt stopping bullets, rearranging physics. . .of which he surely doesnt have UNLIMITED control of.

quote
"The nature of choice, the illusion of choice, questioning purpose, defining purpose, balance, Yin and Yang, chaos theory, relatvity, Plato's cave. . .etc etc etc"
Sure all that would be great, if there is any validity to it. The very essence of what we are arguing about.

quote
"compromise"
I was merely stating the fact that i found it humourous that the architect says " what do you think i am, human?" Yet the machines are capable of many human rational choices throughout the movie. It was almost an insulting blow of irony that the directors threw in at the very end.

quote on personal insults
you dont have to take it out on me, /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif im just providing a formal rebuttal =P

Always more shit i would like to bring up. If machines were so intellegent, why not harvest the sun for power. Why harvest humans, which gives you a higher chance of error, wastes more resources by creating a virtual world of the matrix. With the sun virtually no chance of error, and since they are machines, traveling to the next solar system should not be a problem.

In the last stand, if the humans knew that the machines were all coming out of the pipes why didnt they blow out the pipes. They knew waaay in advance, machines are on a linear path. It is assumed this is the last stand. What is there to lose by blowing up pipes that would not have mattered in the final hours. Im sure knowing exactly where the enemy will attack in a linear path, will improve any chance of war greatly.

on the PS
your asking me ?!?!!?, about matrix merchandise . . .lol

 

Phoenix! Always nice to hear from you...

I played the game on hard mode from the beginning.

No, there is no music in comics my friend...that's an advantage (in my view) of amalgamating it with the film medium. "Panels of non-interest"? I suppose you're referring to the idea of skipping out massive chunks of a comic and thus not having the artists'/directors'/writers' intentions fully conveyed, right? Well, even if you didn't like it, just skip it on the DVD...and as for the cinema: I'd have throttled you if you'd pressed the fast forward butting while I was sitting there. That's why you can't.

There is a difference between Star Wars and The Matrix...firstly, the titles. That should give away something in terms of the possibility that they could be trying to do things slightly differntly. In Star Wars, yes, the movies were the core, and the books "expanded". However, The Matrix was a more of a 'splash over multiple mediums to get the full story, so go find it', and as a result, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Half the fun is in the fact that you go to different places to piece the story together...and even then, the movies more than hold their ground; they have a cntral story running through them with some cross references so that those who HAVE bothered to see the story on multiple mediums can go 'ah, I remember that!'. Okay?

The Oracle stuff is totally up to you.

Again, the fact that you used words like "pseudo" in your parallels, and the fact that particular events in Jesus' life are translated in slightly diferent ways in The Matrix goes to show that, as I said, "Neo is not EXACTLY Jesus"...emphasis on the "EXACTLY" please?

"LIMITED capacity". Stopping bullets is limited. "Why?", I hear you cry! Well, this leads on to why Neo still needs to block hits from Agents. You didn't read the part about him only contrlling inanimate objects, did you? I won't repeat myself again. Go back. (I think we're missng each other on the idea of defining the concept of 'rearranging physics').

It is 'valid'. Yes, it's one of the point of discussion. Define 'valid', because your argument is far too hollow (be careful...'validity' isn't a very healthy basis for any point-making).

As for your Architect thing, you've half-outlined the irony right there. That was part of the point. I'm glad you found it humerous. It was supposed to be. (NB: Ghost In The Shell and The Second Renaisance Parts 1 and 2 discusses the idea of 'humanity', what it means, and the idea of machines having human-like assets.)

Yeah, I know you're only replying, but still, being one versus everyone else is difficult. You play Virtua Fighter, you know what I mean.

Haha...dude, now you're just uncovering plot holes that come with the process of telling any story. Go to www.nitpickers.com and discuss it with someone there on as many movies as you want. Anyway, your whole concept of the 'going to another planet' stuff is kinda going off the point of the story, wouldn't you say?

Ooh, yay! Let's blow up our pipes and leave no route for excape for any survivers! Whoopee!! No supplies, no air, no alternate route! Dude, did you notice that Zion is miles underground? (And even then, they decided to blow selected pipelines, so that send that one to bed). Again, I refer you to the previous paragraph.

On the PS labelled "on the PS":
Yeah, I'm asking you. What, you mean to tell me you don't know either? You told ME about this didn't you? Or maybe you forgot that part too...

Hehe...nice chatting. Not good for the blood pressure, mind, but great practice for the literature essays (which reminds me...the Matrix sequels have been structured very similarly to Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra in some respects...critics at the time thought that particular scenes didn't "go anywhere" but modern analyists say that they are there to enhance aspects that 'underlie motivation and purpose of characters'. Perhaps The Matrix too will become appreciated more in the future. Perhaps it's beyond the realms of comprehension of a vast populous of our contemporary society?).

Oh, and one last thing...the Kid is supposed to be annoying (dude, did you not see the Neb crew's reaction to him?)...but even then, it's only due to his enthusiasm and relative innocence, and it is these pure qualities that should be admirable to anyone.

Bottom line, stop being an anal retentive, stop complaining, this 'slaging the Matrix' stuff is getting old. Now let's discuss something else. If you can't, then don't. I'm tired. I'm going to bed.

 

good comics have no panels of non-interest

different mediums, fun for you, more cash wasted for broke ass college students like me. Not everyone can afford the full matrix experience. Therefore you need to let the movies stand on their own.

Im not the one who used "exactly". But the references are so blatant, am i watching ben hur?

Ok about rearranging physics, Lets say if a 80 million bullets were shot at Neo. Would he be able to stop them all. If he could, thats pretty godlike powers to me. But if you say he cant, my point proven. Now if im following your arguement of physics and "animate objects". We know neo has problems with one agent smith, by logic why the hell were the other 1,000 just standing around.

Validity is in the eye of the beholder, I think its bullshit, you believe all of it, i think nothings gonna change that, nuff said.

I dont think going off the planet is that off topic. If your a machine, harvesting a steady power source with the highest probability of success is your main goal. Basically survival. Why bother with humans which have been causing the machine world problems, when the most direct powersource is "above the clouds."

oh i wont bother with nitpickers.com, vfdc is the only forum im active in /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yes blow up the routes. Remember this is a LAST STAND. Anything goes or everyone dies. There is no real survivors.

In my opinion years past from now, matrix will be less appreciated when the special effects become outdated. I find even the original a mediocre movie that special effects carried to blockbuster sucess. The other two just an insult.

Oh and being one vs everyone isnt that bad, I only had to face the same situation when the original matrix came out. And even some more heat with Reloaded. I only feel its right that the opposing end now gets to feel what i did /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif Im probably the only one that can still validly arguing, because I havent backed the movie since the first one, whereas others just jumped on the hater bandwagon.

yes on the PS, i would be the last person to care about the technicallities of matrix merchandise /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
max314 said:
the Kid is supposed to be annoying (dude, did you not see the Neb crew's reaction to him?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, revolutions was supposed to suck, isn't it obvious?!

 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and one last thing...the Kid is supposed to be annoying (dude, did you not see the Neb crew's reaction to him?)...but even then, it's only due to his enthusiasm and relative innocence, and it is these pure qualities that should be admirable to anyone.

Bottom line, stop being an anal retentive, stop complaining, this 'slaging the Matrix' stuff is getting old. Now let's discuss something else. If you can't, then don't. I'm tired. I'm going to bed.


[/ QUOTE ]

couldnt you of put that in a new post ? Instead of catching me off guard with an edited one. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

continuing rebuttal, annoying characters are NEVER, needed for a movie. Fuck, Jar Jar Binks is a hero to his people in the movie, but what a fucking annoying character.

"Stop being anal retentive" LOL, wasnt this your post on matrix discussion. The best discussions are when someone takes the other side of the spectrum. It wouldnt be much of one if everyone just agreed with you. You can call it the slagging of the matrix, but I am merely stating what I view as facts. Defend your beliefs if you will. I have since the original matrix.

 

I'll have to be quicker than usual.

"Good comics have no panels of non-interest."
This is a sweeping statement.

Dude, I'm a "broke ass college student" too.

No, you didn't say "exactly". I never said you did. So what if the references are blatant? What's wrong with that...I just smiled when I saw the cross...oh, and did you notice how he looked like an angel in that 'flame mode' with the wire-type machines looking like wings?

To your validity comment...I totally agree, and was hoping you'd say that.

All the rest of this 'but they coulda done this' stuff applies to many movies, which is one of the things nitpickers.com is about.

Good for you for standing by your opinion despite everyone thinking you were wrong. It's the only thing that keeps a person truly 'free'. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm gonna have everyone on my side like you have now.

Also, just wondering what you disliked so much about the original?

Dandy J? That was just an irritating poke.

By the way, I didn't mean to be "catching you off guard", it's just that I'd written something that I felt you may have found slightly offensive, so i just went back and replaced it with another paragraph.

With the "anal retentive" stuff, I was simply referring to the plethora of faults that have been picked with the movies and really wanted for discussion to move on. Obviously it hasn't, and needless to say, I am tiring. But please, carry on posting.

Oh, and just out of curiosity, if you've seen Ghost In The Shell, I'd love to know what you thought of that.

Happy Virtua Fighting.

 

Hehe..anyone notice the Deja-Vu with the black cat at the end as Sati wakes up coinciding with the Matrix rebooting?

Also, interesting parallels:
The Architect as God and the Oracle as Satan...one to balance the equation, and the other to unbalance it. God tries to keep everyone ignorant in the garden of Eden (the Matrix) while the Oracle represents the Serpent/Lucifer as a representative of knowledge, while the red pill symbolises the apple from the tree of knowledge. As a result of the acceptance of this knowledge, no longer ignorant, Adam and Eve are banished from the garden of Eden (people waking up to the real world, and can never go back to the blissful ignorance they were once in...much like Cypher stating how "ignorance is bliss").

We have Neo, representing Christ. We have Smith, representing the Anti-Christ. Both figures battle. They fight an epic battle. Above the skies, through the Earth. Through consuming darkness and through blinding light. They battle where it all began. They battle in Eden. God watches. Lucifer watches. And finally, both warriors stand face to face. Eye to eye. In the rain. In the darkness. And then something happens. One of them realises. One of them ascends. One of them realises that turning the other cheek is the only way to victory. Not his victory...but for that of mankind. For that of mankind's spawn...the machines For that of life. And in his final moment, he releases himself from the temporal fetters that held him back. He frees his mind. The Anti-Christ takes the saviour. And in so doing, he destroys himself. His ego, his pride, his own power decimates him. Like the star that destroys itself, not by exploding outwards...but by collapsing inwards on the force of its own gravity.

Standing obliterated...the heavens, the Earth. Awe-struck, who is to say anything but evil has this day been defeated. In the wake of the decimation, God looks down. He ponders. Then the world is reborn. New. Afresh. More beautiful than before. With the innocence and beauty of a child, more than life is reborn. More than the world...we have hope.
__________________________________________
Original Phone Booth Convo:

INT. COMPUTER SCREEN

Close on a computer screen as in the
opening. The cursor beating steadily,
waiting. A phone begins to ring.

It is answered and the screen fills
instantly with the trace program.
After a long beat, we recognize Neo's
voice.

NEO (V.O.)
Hi. It's me. I know you're
out there. I can feel you
now.

We close in on the racing columns of
numbers shimmering across the screen.

NEO (V.O.)
I imagine you can also
feel me.

The numbers begin to lock into place.

NEO (V.O.)
You won't have to search
for me anymore. I'm done
running. Done hiding.
Whether I'm done fighting,
I suppose, is up to you.

We glide in towards the screen.

NEO (V.O.)
I believe deep down, we
both want this world to
change. I believe that the
Matrix can remain our cage
or it can become our
chrysalis, that's what you
helped me to understand.
That to be free, truly
free, you cannot change
your cage. You have to
change yourself.

We dive through the numbers, surging
up through the darkness, sucked
towards a tight constellation of
stars.

NEO (V.O.)
When I used to look out at
this world, all I could
see was its edges, its
boundaries, its rules and
controls, its leaders and
laws. But now, I see
another world. A different
world where all things are
possible. A world of hope.
Of peace.

We realize that the constellation is
actually the holes in the mouthpiece
of a phone. Seen from inside.

NEO (V.O.)
I can't tell you how to
get there, but I know if
you can free your mind,
you'll find the way

EXT. PHONE BOOTH/STREET

We shoot through the holes as Neo
hangs up the phone. He steps out of
the phone and slides on a pair of
sunglasses. He looks up and we rise.

Higher and higher, until the city is
miles below.

After a moment, Neo blasts by us, his
long black coat billowing like a black
leather cape as he flies faster than a
speeding bullet.
__________________________________________

I hope you see now that the much controversial ending was perfect. I think that people were so wrapped up in what they expected to happen that they coudn't see the genius of what actually happened.

More discussion please.

"As you so adequately put...the problem is choice." - The Architect

 

In the original script, the Oracle was supposed to be able to change shape at will (Lucifer?) in order to deceive Neo, Morpheus and Trinity by feeding them the 'shell cahnge due to Merv' story. However, in the advent of Gloria Foster's death, naturally they coudn't have this same story, so things had to change a bit...the whole shell thing became a genuine thing.