the most powerful move in VF4 is....

LOW PUNCH

 

Anticipating and Breaking All Throws...

 

"enter the tekken" ^^

agh, in all tekkens, 4 especially d+1 low punch is so many peoples answer to everything ... a real panic button. but in tekken there is the universal low parry which will stuff low punch abusers (though usually not for severe followups).
from what i have read about vf4 d+P it sounds almost exactly like the tekken d+1 most char's have.

so what are the options vs abuse of d+P? I'm curious to know how VF4'ers are getting around it.
- does it really beat any high or low throw?
- what is the recovery on whiff? i assume the recovery is crouching ...
- is it easily dodged, if so is there a prefereable side to dodge to?
- is it's priority good enough to stuff any incoming attack? i.e given that it will likely trade hits with any slower move, suppose that move is incoming and in its execution frames ... does the d+P always rule priority wise?
- does it push away at all on hit/MC/mC/block?
- what are the options for reversals/parries? for example, I plan on using pai .. what could she do?

some dumb questions but given the huge role of d+1 in tekken I would like to have a good understanding of exactly what the similar sounding d+P 'does' in VF4 ... I am guessing that treating it as a tekken d+1 will be a bad idea.

 

does it really beat any high or low throw?
-Yes, but I'm not sure that if it beats Venessa's catch-Lts.
what is the recovery on whiff? i assume the recovery is crouching ...
-Yes, it is crouching, but there's no guaranteed attacks when its blocked low or high.
is it easily dodged, if so is there a prefereable side to dodge to?
-It is easily dodged. You're suppose to dodge to your right when closed stance and to your left when open stance, but it doesnt really matter.
does it push away at all on hit/MC/mC/block?
-No.
what are the options for reversals/parries? for example, I plan on using pai .. what could she do?
-6 out of 13 characters have low punch reversals, and some characters are given the high attacks that beat low punch.
For Pai, her d/f+p,k and k,p,k beats low punch or she can just dodge and grab.

low punch is a good move to interrupt opponents charges, but it is blockable standing, and every characters have options against low punch abuse.

 

you said pai's KPK beats low punch.. you're talking about K, P, K? the ugly kick, jab, reverse crescent combo? Do any of those hit mid or what?


/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>

 

I believe that the d+1 in Tekken was so powerful only because it brought you back from defense to offense. The reason for that was the fact that Tekken had such an emphasis on ws moves. For instance, d+1, ws+4 was a typical setup in TTT and Tekken 3 for creating space and getting an offensive pitbull off your back.

But VF doesn't seem to emphasize ws moves....actually isn't it only a couple characters that even have them? Without fast followups that get you back on the offense, it shouldn't be too much of a problem--just an annoyance that interrupts your attack pattern if you're not careful. As Tekken evolved, d+1 became less and less of a factor--especially with for those with weak ws games. I trust the same will happen with VF4.

 

the thing is, while VF has like 2 WS movies, it has a -ton- of from crouch moves. Most of them leave you in a standing position afterwards. So they amount to the exact same thing (I used lots of d+1, ws+4 with ling).. just different commands to pull them off. The classic example is wolf and jeff doing lots of low punches into D/F+P uppercuts and akira doing d+P into shrm.



/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>

 

This is true...as a wolf player, I've learned to value the low punch. Learned it from a lau/lion who would often do low punches, and just duck in general, to setup lau's FC, f+K, or Lion's FC, f+PG. Low punch serves anyone with a low throw well, as it often conditions the player to duck. Even if the player refuses to duck, it's an annoying attack, that leads to frustration and unwise decisions. Nothing better than dodging one and getting an armbar, though... ORGASM!! heh

Ultimately, we're all dead men, sadly we cannot choose how, BUT we can decide how we meet that end in order that we are remembered as men.

 

That reverse crescent of Pai's k,p,k or d/f+p,k, is a high attack which is charge-able and it hits mid when it's charged.
And even if it's not charged, it specifically beats low punch. I guess that it is the option for ppl who try to interrupt d/f+p,p with low punch.

oh, BTW that reverse crescent can be canceled by tapping joystick down during the charge.

 

Low punch serves anyone with a low throw well, as it often conditions the player to duck. Even if the player refuses to duck, it's an annoying attack, that leads to frustration and unwise decisions.

Crew Wolf I believe you already understand this, but I just want to emphasize:
If you are the player fighting a Wolf/Jeff who is trying to condition you to crouch by low punching a lot, you must remember that the low punch is now blockable while standing too. If you're hold G while either crouching OR standing the low punch is blocked.

Now, can anyone comment on who has the initiative after a player blocks a low punch? Does it make a difference if you block it from crouch or from standing? (It's probably character dependent...)

--
"VF is the resonance AND the wonder." GodEater

 

I beg to differ. I think the value of a dp lies in its
ability to interrupt moves with minimal risk. Once a dp MCs
you, you're forced into a bad situation(as illustrated
above), but if its blocked, you can't do much, get the
picture? I don't think the ability to block a dp while
standing helps much. If you blocked it while standing, you
won't be able to punish, its the same for crouching.

Its not like what some think, "oh, I'll just dodge or
counter his dps since my elbow can't win". Its not that
simple. A good player knows how and when to alternate
between moves, he can throw a p or something to interrupt
your attacks too, so a 10/11f dp(from standing) has just
increased his options. I can understand why a p is
disruptive(it only hits high), but a dp??!! What the...ugh

 

alucard, technically the DP is also a high attack! But I know what you mean.

I don't think the ability to block a dp while
standing helps much. If you blocked it while standing, you
won't be able to punish, its the same for crouching.

I had previously speculated that maybe if you block the low punch standing you'd get more advantage than if you blocked it crouching. I.e. elbow from a blocked DP crouching won't be guaranteed, but maybe elbow from standing would.

It's unfortunate if that is not the case though.

From the test version, I could tell that the DP is very strong, but looking at the clips released so far, none of the players really abused it. I mean, sure, you'll see the DP from time to time but it's nothing like VF2. Maybe those advanced players know something we don't...

shoda clinic, I bet you feel like posting every character's anti-DP move(s)? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Oh, fucking wonderful, VF3 S'pore/ACP lingo back from the dead: "down punch" or "down kick". Why don't you call them call them what they are, low punches or low kicks? "down punch" or "down kick" makes no fucking sense at all, and calling low punches DP's just warps common sense over the edge and only adds to the confusion.

--
"I know I say the word 'fuck' a lot, and I'd apologize, but; I don't give a shit." - Lewis Black

 

Just realised that Kage TFT follow by a complete knee combo doesnt take off much damage

Instead i realise how easy it is for wolf to do a knee, punch, and b,f,p+k to get abt 1/3 of your life bar, not to
say a succesful elbow if the opponent does noe how to quick-get-up. isnt it sad?



When the chill of winter comes to hell, only the fittest resist the Bell. - Navy SEAL

 

I agree with Alucard here. d+P use lies in the fact that it interrupts MANY MANY things. Throws and mid attacks. I guess people is still not used to this MAJOR change from VF3. There should be a way around it but still it will be a very useful move.

Example,
I was playing vs an Aoi who like to sweep me which staggers a standing guard. He will then sweep again followed by a mid attack/throw. What is the best thing to do after getting nailed my the sweep?? a low p, it will beat another sweep or throw and most mid attack.

 

Crew Wolf I believe you already understand this, but I just want to emphasize:
If you are the player fighting a Wolf/Jeff who is trying to condition you to crouch by low punching a lot, you must remember that the low punch is now blockable while standing too. If you're hold G while either crouching OR standing the low punch is blocked.

Yeah, my fault. Haven't had a chance to play much VF4, so I forgot some of the changes.

I do agree that down+punch (heh) is strong, of course. But, as with any predictable practice, can be punished, and harshly. Of course, it requires yomi, and if I had magic yomi, my opponent would never get the opportunity to throw out a low punch in the first place. =P

Ultimately, we're all dead men, sadly we cannot choose how, BUT we can decide how we meet that end in order that we are remembered as men.