The Truth about VF...

A few things,

First, I believe you are awarded a trophy based on your points at the arcade you are registered to. You get points for beating people at that arcade, and lose points for losing at that arcade. The top three people as far as points are concerned are automatically given the trophies... At the arcade I go to, I've seen the trophies change hands and there certainly havn't been any tournaments there...

Skill level required to get a trophy at a given arcade, or get up to tenth dan, can vary greatly by arcade... However, once above tenth dan it becomes a bit harder to rank up, and a bit easier to get demoted so I'd say on paper, an above 10th dan player is probably be better than a dan player, regardless of if they have a trophy or not...

Finally, at the arcade I go to, any guesses as to who the most popular character is? Kage with his ninja cheese? Akira who is always strong? Lau or Jacky? Nope, Wolf is the most popular character - by far... Most of the people who play there have a Wolf card.. I'm not gonna argue wether he is weak or strong, but he is popular and fun to play, at least around these parts...

-Alex

 

Archangel jumps on the kage hate wagon.

 

Kage is definitely overpowered in FT.

Almost all the major powerhouses cept for Kage got nerfed bad.

Other than his nerf (which nobody cares since you can now use his old chop), none of his other bs overpowered moves were toned down. In fact, he received a bunch of ridiculous power ups. has a much greater sabaki window now, his back turned options have been increased, the uppercut combo now does good dmg on counter, etc...

All I can say is final tuned was badly tuned, its no coincidence that so many Kages made it to the finals of Hotenamihaiken4, and most made it to the latter stages as well.

 

i love this thread ^____^* v .... i'd laugh if the players of that vid are viewing this thread. lol

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btw, in addition to my last post ----- i'd like to clarify i was wrong about backdash SS beating high P due to the dash animation and late ducking frames..... it will still beat low P and evade tho. (doesnt stop SS in general being a kick ass high attack killer however).

 

Ah, that clears some of my doubts. I remember seeing Kyasao kage with a silver cup in Shinjuku and some idiot told me he came in 2nd in the local tourney!

 

coming from a tekken background i guess i'm just more of an optimist when it comes to VF's balance but i believe FT's balance is pretty decent (better then evo's) and as the game continues to evolve, the balance will hopefully get better. i just wanted to make acouple of points as well:
first i think FT hasn't evolved to the point where most characters have reached their best potential yet. there are still new strats and tactics that will continue to be uncovered which might affect different aspects of the character strengths/weaknesses. for example i didn't even know about the full usefullness of jeff's ++ until i saw some japanese players using it late in evo era. i never knew about minor counter ++ guaranteeing a ,++ either till i saw it in that evo tourney vid and judging by some responses a lot of other people didn't know about it either! since then i've started to look at 1/60th's minor counter and hit execution phase frame data a lot more closely! of course there might have been players here and in japan that knew about this strat for ages and have already been usign it regularly but i'm sure it didn't become widely known for awhile. i'm guessing and hoping that such strategies are still yet to be uncovered in FT. shuns usually my main character and i was very pleased to see players like itabashi using his more unconventional moves like ++ (which i used a lot in evo as well due to its auto-aligning ability and good recovery) and tsunodei using moves like ++ (which i find useful against characters like lion) in tournemant matches. i didn't see these players using these moves much in evo (don't know why though) so i'm guessing that bodes well and that they might have some additional uses i/we don't yet know about.

secondly the change moves also add a neat new element to a characters ranking, because at this point i think its still a little early to say which change moves are good for which character. every change move choice is not as obvious as kage's +. my three mains shun jeff and van all have well balanced change moves so its sort of hard to choose which one will be best for them without a lot of experimentation. for jeff and shun it seems that one change move is more geared towards offense (+ for jeff should be great on offense now due to being sped up to 15 frames) whereas the other is more geared towards defense (alternative jef + lets him punish elbow class stuff very well). its sort of hard to say which move will be better because i don't think players have really found out how much jeff can pitbull or turtle at this point. in evo i saw most players do offensive turtling hunting for opportunities. in FT that might change due to jeff's enhanced recovery.

lastly i think VF is also played differently here. i'm a huge advocate of VF's balance in the long run as compared to the short run. by long run i mean when you play one person in a first to ten, then i think its anyone's game and the primary determinant will always be who the better player is and the influence of the character will be minimal. logically you just have more time to guage the opponents reactions and find out their tendencies and ample time and number of matches to respond to them. in this scenario i think a character like wolf is as good as anyone else. in the short run yes i think you're defintely going to run into some problems. short run being playing a number of different opponents just once each, winner stays, loser gets off and opponents keep rotating. in an environment like that i think matches will favour rushdown characters like kage/jacky/lau more because their playstyle enables them to maintain a steady offense without comprimising as much safety as a character like wolf/jeff. thats great for the short run because you don't have enough time to capitalise on your opponents tendencies there and have to rely on generic all purpose tactics for your respective character to a much greater degree then were you playing a long series against just a few players. the way VF is played in NA is mostly long term style imo and the way its played in japan is mostly short run style. thats basically my theory on why you see differences in win rates and see the top four winning a lot more. the players in NA who have experience agaisnt some top japanese players might be able to shed more light on if its true or not. like when you guys (shang, jerky, shou, supergolden, myke, anyone??) play someone like itabashi, do you see them opening up with a lot more moves after a few matches with you or taking more chances once they see how you play? whoops almsot out of time at my cybercafe so will type more later but am basically done.

 

[ QUOTE ]
alucard said:
has a much greater sabaki window now

[/ QUOTE ]

Lies. +'s sabaki window is 1 frame smaller in FT.

 

That's actually the Wolf player fucking up screw hook. I know, because I've done it on more than one occasion. Ugh.

 

Dandy wrote:

"I didn't see 1 Wolf throw out 4K....And none of those players used it once. NOT ONCE! Are they on crack? I would've whored that shit all day."

it's funny when people make big statements like this "NOT ONCE!" and they're wrong... The 1st and 2nd Wolf players both used this move. 1st time it was dodged, 2nd time I think it hit Kage out of the air or something...

doesn't really change the fact that it's a good move to point this out, but worth noting that it was in fact used.

I think the first and last Wolfs just weren't as good as the Kage (2 big backwards jumps would also suggest 1st guy was having stick problems, unless that opener is just his answer to the now standard Ready...Go...Run Away!)

I'm surprised 2nd wolf lost, he was pretty good, and had the momentum going. The Kage pretty much went into whore mode in 4th round of 2nd fight and stayed there (3rd fight probably wanting to close out set & show off). Elbow --> ffP+K+G, c'mon...

I will say that these (and most Wolfs) like to totally neglect this Kick Reversals, which I think is a mistake. Kage is REALLY heavy on middle kicks, especially at mid range, Wolf players should punish him more. 2nd fight: middle kick --> u/f+K+G (eats Wolf's low P), 2 reversal chances missed. 3rd fight, I think last round, Kage throws out 3 middle kicks in a row... wake up! Think about how many times you've seen Kage reverse middle kicks from Jumonji in VF4 vs how many times you've seen Dragon Screw/Captured in VF4... why?

(insert Shang rant about risk versus reward here with regard to Wolf's reversals, Kage's reversal leads to so much more damage etc... while Dragon Screw/Captured continue to gather dust).

anyway, in general VF has become much more of a poking/fast moves game since VF3, not much we can do about it...

but, with regards to truth, truth is Shang plays a Yomi-heavy Wolf pretty well, and LA Andy, Dobi, Ticky and myself all seem to agree that it's tougher and more fun than his wack-ass Jacky!

(insert comment from Shang here that we all suck, and don't know enough about VF to comment on such matters)

Bryan

 

Bryan you crack me up haha!. hey dobi and tikki are boston!! at least they claim to be...

 

My 2 cents for this whole thing.

First, it's valid to judge who's good and who's not depending on these 3 matches in this clip. Everyone'd know why and yet I see some of these comments being made.

Some people said 2nd Wolf is better than 1st Wolf etc, but you can't really judge it that easily. (I am just stating it as an example and not pin pointing someone's comment.)

Second: With the first comment being said, judging which character is better by 1 clip is even more pointless. What if someone finds a clip that Yoro or Jin played poorly and lost to say, a 6th dan Wolf player. Can you make an argument out of that as -Wolf is way better than Kage in FT as look at this clip! A 6th dan Wolf can beat the top tier Kage- ?

Your call.

 

lol I totally missed the 4K attempts. I was too distracted by Makoto raping so hard.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Second: With the first comment being said, judging which character is better by 1 clip is even more pointless. What if someone finds a clip that Yoro or Jin played poorly and lost to say, a 6th dan Wolf player. Can you make an argument out of that as -Wolf is way better than Kage in FT as look at this clip! A 6th dan Wolf can beat the top tier Kage- ?


[/ QUOTE ]

rank would have nothing to do with it...... i've seen some no-name bums with alien play like it was nothing special in japan.

besides. it's quite clear that kage cut down all of the wolf's choices... the comments made are quite general. imo, kage has those kinds of tools and wolf has difficulty with it, i mean look at the 3rd round of the second wolf!.... stuff like that just so happens in VF.. i mean the whole character stagger difficulty thing still needs sortting out... it's like wolf eats akira's stumble trip setup like it's guaranteed!

 

[ QUOTE ]
BK__ said:

[ QUOTE ]
Second: With the first comment being said, judging which character is better by 1 clip is even more pointless. What if someone finds a clip that Yoro or Jin played poorly and lost to say, a 6th dan Wolf player. Can you make an argument out of that as -Wolf is way better than Kage in FT as look at this clip! A 6th dan Wolf can beat the top tier Kage- ?


[/ QUOTE ]

rank would have nothing to do with it...... i've seen some no-name bums with alien play like it was nothing special in japan.

besides. it's quite clear that kage cut down all of the wolf's choices... the comments made are quite general. imo, kage has those kinds of tools and wolf has difficulty with it, i mean look at the 3rd round of the second wolf!.... stuff like that just so happens in VF.. i mean the whole character stagger difficulty thing still needs sortting out... it's like wolf eats akira's stumble trip setup like it's guaranteed!

[/ QUOTE ]

BK, you've got a point. The reason I said a 6th dan was to mention a not-so-strong player.

Granted, there are some hard match ups between certain characters in VF, but I'd say it's not something that's in the degree of frustration or impossble match ups.

I wouldn't even have jumped in if this thread was about Wolf's diffult match ups thread. The title itself is misleading in the first place, and some of discussions seem to be far out of the way.

 

Bryan - Funny Post

How are you man? Hit me up if you come to Japan, the Akiras in my area suck ass. =)

And I mean in my local arcade, not in the real arcades....there are some days where I'd be better off not going =P

 

Re: Bryan - Funny Post

It seems at this point most people would agree there are "some" imbalance, but doesn't warrent an outcry since the imbalance is minimal. OK! let me put it this way... i'm not talking about extreme cases where one player is obvious better than the other. VF is not a simple game, if the wolf player invest more time, energy whatever and gains more "skill", of course he can beat a typical kage player. In fact he can probably beat a kage player casually. But I'm talking about cases where two players dedicated the same amount of time, energy, money, and of the same talent. All given are equal... you know what, kage owns wolf here. In fact kage would own wolf vs every character percentage wise. This is the imbalance. heck, I spend 1% of the time playing kage and my winning % is just as good as my wolf. ( pls don't start with this shit, well u should drop wolf then, that's a lame excuse for worshiping ur favorite game ). This is the fact.. the clip above is only one example of the countless ones where the obvious imbalanced and unfairness wolf players all over the world would have to live with in exchange for the "fun" factor. and that is just plainly wrong. If you don't agree with this then 1, you haven't played enough wolf, 2, you have been blinded by your own infactuation, or 3 you are just plainly a fucking moron.
EOF.

 

Re: Bryan - Funny Post

Shang,

Even if I agree with you it boots nothing to continue ranting. No one can help you. No one here can correct the problem. No one will stop playing kage when they're up against a Wolf Player (in fact, more might pick up kage). You can have the whole board bow down in the same instant and it won't change a thing.

Pointing out that the sky is blue will not make it green. Disliking the colour blue will not effect change. So why go on as you have. If people play Wolf because they like the challenge how does that alter your viewpoint? It doesn't. Just the same way that your outlook won't impact everyone on this board or alter the mechanics of play.

Just pointing out that the sky is blue.

GE

 

Re: Bryan - Funny Post

to be honest, VF discussion has gone dead lately..

i'm enjoying this /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Re: Bryan - Funny Post

GE: i know you are still upset from the days when i unleashed the fury on you and your lion in vf2 over the internet. but comparing an imbalance in a videogame to the color of the sky is just rediculious, lol. come on man, seriously, a game can be balanced a lot easier than to color the sky... what a poor comparasion. why jump in here and spend 10 mins saying nothing? it must be the vf2 beat down?

 

Re: Bryan - Funny Post

[ QUOTE ]
to be honest, VF discussion has gone dead lately..

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's gone dead because of shit like this.

Results of flaming / whining = The one who screams the loudest wins, no newcomer to the site dares to post anything (gone from how many posts a day to none?), nobody wants to post strats / info cause of bs "discussions" it will elope to and the good players don't give a shit about the posts due to all the drama. Pardon me for not clapping - cause that's reality.

/KiwE