The Virtua Fighter Realism Dilemma

VF is an arcade fighter. It's not a martial arts simulator.

Just because moves are motion capped and/or actually exist in a martial art does not make a game realistic. I've watched Kage throw Wolf 10 feet in the air. Watched Jacky kick a schoolgirl 5 feet up and then proceed to bounce her off the ground.

VF does not portray a real fight. It never has and it never will.

 

I agree

 

Claims Virtua Fighter IS a martial arts Simulator

Game PRO proclaims VF5 UltraRealistic Martial Arts Simulation

Actually I counted about 10 sources that claim VF is a martial arts simulator. (I'm not saying I agree), I'm just showing that's the perception of lots of game reviewers and critics.

Also you gave examples where VF deviates from realistic martial arts, but to be fair there are many many examples where it is more or less realistic or at least believable.

Obviously there are counter examples that prove VF has fantasy in it, but there are just as many examples that demonstrate VF is pretty believable. And that's the problem, Vf is neither completely fantasy based nor is it completely reality based. That's one of the primary reasons VF is not a 'Main Stream' Fighting game, because it has not made the choice of which kind of game its gonna be. Is it a Tekken /SC type game? If it is, then it needs to add more, higher floats, longer combos, magic, animals, powerup moves, It needs a clear cast of bad guys and a clear cast of good guys, Its needs more virtual flesh showing from the girls, more breasts, bigger, bouncier. If its not a Tekken/SC type game then its a Sports Combat Simulation, which means that something needs to be done about the floating, and the ability to knock or kick someone 10 feet or more vertically or horizontally.


VF attempts to walk the line, and it does a pretty good job walking the line. The only problem with not really being this and not really being that, is sales suffer. And Virtua Fighter's sales speak for themselves. Even with marketing by Sega, the gameplay of VF gives it self away.

It is a fighting game with one foot in heaven and the other foot in hell, One foot in reality , one foot in fantasy, that worked when it was first launched, but now, the stakes are too high, and VF needs to have better sales inorder for new console versions to be ported.

I'm suggesting that the Tekken/SC/DOA crowd has already given VF the (that's why sales are poor), maybe the UFC/MMA crowd might give VF the We have nothing to lose at this point.

 

this just in: Random blogger says VF is "in a sense" a simulator. Game Pro says it is a "button masher". these are deemed credible sources but everyone that posts saying contrary is deemed to not know what they are talking about despite that they have no agenda besides the appreciation for delusion-free conversation.

I only looked at your links, not the rest of your "I'm unemployed, on welfare, and think Bruce Lee was awesome" mumbo jumbo.

 

I didn't even bother to click "Toggle the display of this post".

Not yours though, GE. Just making that clear.

 

Akira's 666p is pretty cheap and unreal.

 

throwing is cheap. so is blocking.

 

Sidestepping is broken as fuck.

In fact, any movement, defensive or otherwise is stupid and unrealistic.

Should be like Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots.

 

omg. rock 'em sock 'em robots. That shit was the earliest and most pure boxing simulator on the market.

 

I challenge you to a game of Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots!

 

For those of you who clicked the first link there just for the boobs; I thought I'd save you some trouble linking directly to another video from these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5X_DnCccM&t=00m38s

Also; lol @VF being a simulator and the assumption that less floats would make it sell more instead of less.

 

A clueless opinion is an irrelevant opinion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also you gave examples where VF deviates from realistic martial arts, but to be fair there are many many examples where it is more or less realistic or at least believable.</div></div>No.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obviously there are counter examples that prove VF has fantasy in it, but there are just as many examples that demonstrate VF is pretty believable.</div></div>No.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And that's the problem, Vf is neither completely fantasy based nor is it completely reality based. That's one of the primary reasons VF is not a 'Main Stream' Fighting game, because it has not made the choice of which kind of game its gonna be. </div></div>No.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it a Tekken /SC type game?</div></div>Yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is, then it needs to add more, higher floats, longer combos, magic, animals, powerup moves, It needs a clear cast of bad guys and a clear cast of good guys, Its needs more virtual flesh showing from the girls, more breasts, bigger, bouncier.</div></div>Contrary to popular opinion on these boards, the lack of any of these things mentioned is not the reason people in the west are not playing VF. And if anyone says they would start playing VF if it had those things, they're lying, either to you or themselves.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If its not a Tekken/SC type game then its a Sports Combat Simulation, which means that something needs to be done about the floating, and the ability to knock or kick someone 10 feet or more vertically or horizontally.</div></div>But as I've now told you, it's not a simulator. This is not arguable, this is fact.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF attempts to walk the line</div></div>No, it doesn't.

 

You're dead on Marlyjay,

I remember people complaining that Tekken 4 was trying to be like VF and that's why they didn't like it. I'm sure if I got on TZ and looked around a little, I would find Tekken fans that said exactly that. And there complaints about the combos (which indirectly are complaints about the floating)

@jeneric just because you say no to something doesn't change the facts and the reality. It obvious that many many moves in VF look realistic, for instance "some" of the kicks that both Jackie, Sarah do, you can see them done every FN day in any Taekwondo, dojo in the world, Lei Fei's no hand flip, his leg sweep, his horse stance attack can be seen in almost any documentary on Shaolin monks and kungfu. I personally saw Anderson Silva do a Muay Thai knee very similar to Jeffrey's knee and Brad's knee in the game.

Now you are right in the sense that the resulting animation after those attacks are delivered is not realistic (i.e. the floating , or the fall downs and jumping right back up), but the delivery of the initial attacks are believable. Some of AOIs throws are so text book that they are cliches in their own right. I could go fighter by fighter and point out
all of the realistic moves and the ones that are not, and on balance the majority would be realistic (that is > 50%)

Simply asserting "no" with nothing to support your "no" is empty. You would have to demonstrate how the basic simple punch and simple kick in VF are not realistic and we both know that they are. While the resulting animations are not realistic in most cases, the initiating animation is

I'm also noticing in this thread that the few people who disagree the most , are also the people that don't have anything to back up their opinions. They attack my proof, evidence, supporting weblinks, but all they come with is their 2 cents bolded. Trying to minimize the opinions of game reviewers, and critics, and game developers without putting up something concrete to challenge them is empty.

Name calling, also does not advance your position.

Even some AM2 developers said they were trying to make the styles realistic martial arts styles, and the moves like realistic martial arts moves. That was there goal at least, maybe they were not 100% successful, but that was their goal.

@jeneric so why should I take your opinion over the game
developers that gave us Virtua Fighter in the first place

Virtua Fighter is simply not a main stream fighting game. The reason is not main stream have little to do with Sega's poor advertising, and more to do with the actual presentation and gameplay of VF. It simply does not have enough fantasy viz a viz fighting kangeroos, pandas, kodiak bears, robots, magical mist, flying, super moves, power up moves, disappear-reappear moves, mechanical men, 10-20 hit combos, etc. To be truly appealing to the Tekken/DOA/SC crowd(Sales figures prove that) On the other hand it does have a basic simple presentation of primarily believable martial arts, but with too much fantasy to be considered a combat sport simulation.


I have sales figures, game reviews, game developer interviews, game fan interviews, the virtua fighter instruction manual, VF advertising from the early 90's
to back up my position.

@jeneric et al What do you have, except thick headed disagreement

 

His post looks like facts based on experience and reason. This non dilemma you've fabricated is kind of like arguing the stork theory with a doctor... The "babies come from large sea-faring avian creatures" dilemma.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally saw Anderson Silva do a Muay Thai knee very similar to Jeffrey's knee and Brad's knee in the game. </div></div>

 

That game had its share of problems though. Infinite combos resulting from the uneven terrain, Jin, infinite combos on the octagon stage, lack of character balance, Jin, etc.

Also Jin.

 

Tekken 4's juggles weren't really any shorter than any of the previous Tekken's either and Tekken had always seemed successful before. It looks like TTT2 is gonna do something about the absurd juggle length and wall carry.

Yeah VF's start was in complete contrast to say SF2 for instance which at the time really revolutionized fighting games. It became a very common and cheap arcade and was ported to practically every system out there giving it massive exposure. Sega on the other hand had their own systems which unfortunately at the time of VF's creation became very unsuccessful. Arcade VF (back when arcades actually mattered outside asia) was rare and expensive too.