The "Why did I lose" thread

In this thread let us talk about why you loss a match versus a certain character or fighting style. Post the character you were using and the character you lost to.

Videos can help, so if you have one post it as well. The purpose of this thread is raise the level of play throughout the community, NOT to bash a person you do not like.

High level players are welcome to give tips and feedback to members.

Remember, Thinking about how you loss a fight, is more important than thinking about how you won a fight.

 

good intentions with this thread....but, im afraid this is going to be taken as "the excuses thread" .

but you never know!, someone here might actually be brave enough to forget their ego and cred and post why they lost...WITHOUT sounding like an excuse .


interesting...

ps. this can probably finally (yes i hate it! ) put an end to the gg's / bg's thread lol. do you know i dream of the phrase "gg's to...."? make it Stooooop!! lol

 

The reason why I lost was because I didn't block with my forearms.

I blocked with my face.


Being serious, I never think ahead. I should have a plan to defend when something of mine is blocked. Also, I should follow SDS_Overfiend's advice: "Take what the opponent gives you rather than forcing something to work."

 

I will contribute to this thread by sharing a message I sent a player and member of VFDC.
I will not divulge this individual's name. For all intents and purposes I will call him Player X. In this message I talk about the reasons why I use to lose a lot more back in the days than I do now. I also talk about the NYC players and how much I've learned from them. I hope this helps some of you out there:
<span style="font-size: 11pt">
"Hello, Player X, long time no talk to.
I decided to write you here instead of xbl cuz the space is so small there that I end up losing track of what I was saying when I started.
Anyway, Player X, I know that you know that you're a good player. This is not something that I think or maybe you think or other people think... it's a fact: you're a good player. Period.
Something about your last text to me on xbl made me think of something that I used to say and do and I figured "fuck it", let me try to see if I can approach you about taking your game to the next level from a different perspective.

I used to say "bullshit" to Ladon whenever he beat me with Shun. I've learned to let go of this type of mindset bc all it did was hold me back. Once I started reading Shun's frame data, things didn't get any better for me. I was even more upset. Specially Mule Kick. It goes under highs and it goes over lows. Can lead to up to 70+ points of damage and all you can really punish it with is PK... PK?? ... PfuckingK!?? Are you kiding me?! ... is what I used to say.
But once I started to use Shun and understand him more I learned a lot more of his weaknesses but that's not what made me drop the whole "bullshit character" mentality.

What really made me drop it and helped me step my game up... ok, wait, disclaimer time: I know that I'm not a great player. I'm not even that good. I'm a good "Brad" player. But other than that, the VF game itself, I'm still at level 5 out of 10.
Now, I'm proud of that 5 because before, I used to be a level 1. Going to Dojo, listening to veteran advice and learning new mindsets and tactics to apply to offense and defense helped me step my game up but... I digress... here's what made me drop my whole "bullshit character/move" mindset:

The NY VF players. The "hierarchy" of the NY players seemed to always put Konjou behind Adam, Denkai and CidKid. It puzzled me because I thought Konjou was the most knowledgeable and capable player so why does he always end up last... and why isn't Denkai beating Adam... Denkai seems stronger than Adam... I didn't understand why. It wasn't until I met them and started chatting with them a bit that I started to understand that the player with the most excuses and gripes was the one that won the least. While the player who complained the least, did the most amount of "bullshit" and cared the least about what anybody thought about his style was Adam. He showed it time and time again. Konjou, Denkai and CidKid used to complain about Adam's style, even during the tournaments at NYG7. They would talk about how it sucks that Adam uses 2P so much. 1 of Adam's strongest skills is the ability to hit check. That's why 2P worked great for him. He would mix up offense and defense from just a simple 2P. Blocked, hit or CH, Adam had mind games for them all.
It's important to keep in mind that I never heard Adam complain about any of the player's styles.

Denkai and CidKid complained about Adam but not anybody else and they were almost evenly matched with Denkai having the edge. Dead last was Konjou who not only complained about Adam's low punches but also about Denkai's counter picking, CidKid's PPP madness and about how both of them would play "run away" tactics sometimes (1111). This would piss Konjou off and eventually throw him off his game. I think that's why both Denkai and CidKid would do it more often to Konjou than anybody else.
They would frustrate Konjou so much that they would throw him off his game.

They couldn't frustrate Adam though. He took every and any style you threw at him and figured it out like a Rubik's cube.
Another of Adam's strengths. He wouldn't waste any brain cells on bitching, whining, moaning or pissing about anything. He would apply all of his focus and efforts towards figuring out how to beat whatever you gave him.

I know that this is kinda long and I will end it with this: sometimes it seems to me like you can't be wrong. Like everything you say must be right. Or that maybe you just have an excuse for anything and everything as if you're infallible or something like that.
I'm hoping that that's not the case and that you're able to see reasoning behind changing your "bullshit" mindset to a "adapt and overcome" mindset and just win like you're supposed to be doing.

I think that you're a better player than me. But whether online or offline, you have an uphill battle because, like a tumor in your brain or something, "Brad" or whatever other char/move doesn't belong or is broken or is "bullshit" is taking focus away from the human Rubik's cube that's being presented to you.
You have changed a lot. Props for that but it's time to drop this whole character/move "bullshit" thing you got going.

Konjou dropped it, for the most part and he has left me in the freaking dust with how well he plays now. Full focus and attention to EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION. From small to big, it doesn't matter. Konjou remembers and knows what mind games to play next based on the type of style that you're playing with at the time.
Abare? Moral? Repeat twice? Three times? Or the old switch immediately after the first time...
Apply all of your focus to all of the scenarios going down and you will be the force that you're meant to be.
You've been playing this game for way too long, don't let it all be in vain just because you refuse to evolve."</span>

 

Tony thanks for sharing this. I really enjoyed the real and agree with everything on my part. It's definitely all my excuses in the past that kept me in last place with the NYC guys. I spent to much time making excuses and not enough time making plans to win.

Good stuff! I really learned a lot about myself just now.

 

I have no video to show, but here's a rundown of some things to top my list of current issues.

* Leaving myself open far too often to take cheap hits after the opponent does a quick recovery/tech move after being knock down. Sometimes I play too aggressive for my own good.

* Being late or just stubborn with repeatedly inputting certain directions of ETEG or TEG commands for throws that the opponent haven't used during a match while eating throws that are assigned to input directions I generally ignore.

* Fuzzy too often during predictable moments at the expense of getting thrown or counter hit in the side... with the latter scenario leading to getting launched or punished with attack strings.

* Getting mentally lazy to the point where I occasionally input no throw escapes at times I really should.

* Still not becoming familiar enough with Vanessa's movelist to have a good answer/counter for some of her attacks. I think I freeze/hesitate fighting against her than against any other character.

Kruza

 

Here are some videos where I lost some matches while in Japan. I am the Jean player in all videos. Let me know what I am doing wrong, what I should be doing, or any other feedback to help me raise my play.

 

Hey West Trade Nice Vids.. I never played VF5FS/R but i can see you have a grasp for the basics. The only kind of advice i can offer is to don't don't fish using unsafe attacks. try to keep it short and simple to condition your opponents.. Punish Correctly and get the guaranteed damage on your combo's. Oh yeah for christ sakes Throw Escape lmao!!! Wolf was throwing you all over the place.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I will start working on Throw Escapes tonight.

 

I lost cause my opponent wasn't doing what I wanted em too cause they weren't playing the game right. When they should have blocked, fuzzied or did a ETEG, they attacked instead. So they were too unpredictable and I couldn't do throws cause they attacked for defense or do my delayed attacks.

(Was a joke for yall who didn't get it. I know on internet it can be hard to tell)

lol, on a real note though. Just outguessed. Other than that it's excuses and my fault like, lack of knowledge of the other character (Sorry if i'm not breaking your throw cause I don't know which of the 6 directions your persons throw you're doing is Just to say, that has nothing to do with the comments above me...), and bad inputs.

 

Hooray! KaKadoodle do! Finally a someone I can relate to
Right question Westtrade, and since without argument I am the absolute master of losing (bar none), I'll tell you why I lose when I don't intend to lose.

1) My opponent was simply better than I am, in all levels of the game, more experienced, more skilled, faster, simply better. There is no strategy I could have deployed.

2) Although me and my opponent were equally skilled, my oppnent
surprised me with new sequences and timing of combos that
I had never seen before. The element of surprise is a bitch
and it can beat you no matter how good you are. You can't
prepare for what you've never seen. Here is where experience
comes in, the more you play the more you see. But there's
always, I mean always somebody with something new, and
sometimes you just get surprised.

3) My opponent was just lucky. It happens. My opponent pulls
off a ring out when I have 60% of health and he only has
10% and he has never been able to pull that ring out off
anywhere but in the dojo, and for the first time in actual
play he pulls it off (just dumb luck) he couldn't do it
again if his life depended on. Sometimes, my opponent is
simply luckier than I am, and aint crap you can do about it.

4) Me and my opponent have similar skill sets, he wins because
he's simply hungrier than I am to win. I get caught trying
some new nuance in the game, and my opponent is constantly
thinking about the kill, the win. He wins because he
wants it more than me. Sometimes all things being equal
the hungrier man wins

5) Usually, if I stop thinking about my gameplan, and start
trying to figure out what my opponent is doing, thats it!
another loss under my ring name. On those rare ocassions
when my goal is to win, and I lose, it is sometimes because
I dropped my gameplan somewhere during the match, somewhere
in the ring. Typlically, if I focus on my (and only my)
game plan, you lose. If my focus, or attention lapses,
thats it game over, I lose.

6) I'm in a rut. I've been playin so long I'm just playin on
auto-pilot, playin everybody the same, doing the same old
shit that wins, round after round, and boom, somebody that
has been paying attention, and has figured out my entire
game, steps up and puts and end to my bullshit. Just like
that its over. I lose. I normally have this puzzled WTF
look on my face, until I think about it.

7) Last but not least, somedays its just not your day, you
guessed up, the opponent went down, you guessed block, the
opponent guessed throw, You went for ring out, the opponent
stepped to the side, you thought you had just enough life
bar to win on time up and your vision was a little off that
day. Sometimes you just have a off day,. Of course tomorrow
you'll be back to your old kick ass self, but today, your
game is just off. Shit happens

Outside of the above situations, I only lose when I intend to lose. Truth be told I usually intend to lose . But if I don't attend to lose, and 1) thru 7) are not the case I will win, without a doubt I will win.

 

Somehow, I think that the responses are much more broad than the topic creator intended. Obviously the reasons that one can lose are the reasons that Po listed along with one other...."My opponent knew something about the way the game and the characters behave that I did not know, and my opponent took advantage of that."

But somehow I don't think that broad, macro reasons are what Westtrade was looking for. I think he was looking for more precise analysis and discussion of specific situations. I suspect that this thread will be helped a great deal by the release of VF:FS on PS3. I say that because VF:FS is supposed allow for the easy conversion of matches to youtube videos, in a manner similar to what we have in Soul Calibur 5.

When we have that we can easily link to a video that others can watch and pick apart and have nerd discussions about how we can improve our gameplay. I suspect that is what he was looking for; which is kind of what try to do around here anyway.

 

agreed, Yes he was talking about the micro situations, but if you add the macro option that you listed to the ones I listed, virtually every micro option falls under one of those macro options.

I guess I was up to my old bag of tricks in trying to make the point that virtually every match has to have a loser, and sometimes that loser is you, and sometimes your loss is totally justified, and in some cases your loss is not only predictable but inevitable (in some cases) unfixable .

Believe or not, there are some ppl who just believe they should never lose, or they should always win and if they don't win then either someone was cheating, spamming, lagging, someone had a cheap character, or exploited a broken move,or had turbo on their stick etc. I'm assuming Westtrade is not like that, but recently in the SC5 player matches I've been stunned to see the arrogance of ppl who actually believe that they should win every fuckin match and if they don't then they have to see what they can do about it next time.

Since the thread had lose in the title, I just throw in a little more of my 2cents.

1) There is always somebody that's better than you. Always! I don't care who you are. You might not have met him/her yet, but they're playing right now and they can absolutely mop the floor with your ass. And there is no strategy that you will ever be able to come up with to beat every body sorry

2) There is always someone that is less skilled than you, and less knowledable than you, that from time to time will just have karma or luck or fate on their side and kick you ass. There is also never ever a strategy to prevent this from happening. Its just one of those statistical things. It goes in the category "You can't win them all"

Now if you just want to improve your game, that's kewl. But don't worry about winning or losing. Focus on improving your performance in this (micro situation) or that (micro situation)
without worrying about whether it leads to a win/or loss.

If the goal is how to deal with Shun's mule kick, then come up with a strategy that you are happy with, or if the goal is how to deal with Lei Fei's crazy stances and mixups then focus on
improving your performance in those situations. But don't connect it to winning or losing because:

You could play a perfect match, execute everything exactly the way you wanted to, and still lose. With the exception of ties, someone always loses no matter how awesome the players are or how perfect both of their games are some one will lose.

I've seen perfect matches played perfectly no mistakes made by either player, but somebody is going to take home at loss.

I'm just sayin,., I've lost more matches than most ppl have played, so I have a little experience on topic.

So sometime the answer to the question "Why did I lose?"
is:

Fate, Destiny, Karma, the law of averages, somebody had to, and it had absolutely nothing to do with your gameplay

 

"Why Did I lose?"

Because My opponent made a better split second judgement..

 

I think that this actually captures a lot of it. I would add that an opponent can be better at predicting and not being predicted...

And of course there is the simple and mostly all powerful - I/my opponent have/has spent way more/less time playing VF over the years. Most of the wins I get are against people that I have played way more Vf than. It's like that Power Rangers game that was way too hard b/c the testers kept telling the designers it was too easy. Then the little kids cried when it came out. The players w/ highest win % are like the testers. Of course this can be improved even more if you actually study the esoteric characters and practice techniques, but by and large time invested = skill = wins.

 

This is tough. I beleive the main reason that I lose is because things happen during the fights and I start to lose confidence. in the things that I knowd practice. If I hit my opponent with pk and right away go for elbow and it gets beat by 2p. that will stick with me for a long time. the next time im in that scenario i might evade or omp when I should be pressing. But im curious as to what you guys think.

 

good post to tonyfamillia,

it sounds alot like me too, back when wolf vs pai was a really unfair matchup. but although you can make stratergies for counteracting different sytles, there is always that sense that you are making more effort than your opponent who has the advantage, this can be seen as an even match when it technically isnt, for real sometimes.

 

because my girlfriend looks sexy tonight

 

Because i did not think he was going to do it again and again.
Because i gave him too much credit.
Because his combo was so flashy i dropped my stick and was watching.

I lost because i did not have enough damaging combos when i got my chances to attack.
I could not deal with 2p or akira's elbow due to lack of experience.

I stopped having fun.

 

That should never happen if landed..