Theory Fighter, Defensive Techniques, and Yomi

I'm starting this thread, thanks to the idea of my man Llany, to talk about the theory that goes on behind VF. As I'm sure you've all read the "competent player's" thread and somewhere, inbetween all the flames and quotes from dictionary.com, there was some talk about various defensive techniques, frame stats, and other sorts of information that people may or may not know about. So I'd like to start this thread as a place for discussion about more "advanced" defensive techniques, how to beat them, and what part yomi has to play in all of this, and other bits of knowledge that players may not know that could tremondously help their game. The goal of all of this discussion could be a FAQ or something like "Everything you've ever wanted to know about VF but were afraid to ask" or a place where people new to the scene could look to find some of the "secret" information the 1337 players have been hording.

To be honest, I don't know all of the defensive techniques out there, and I'm not that good at executing them either /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. But I'll get us started with a basic example.

Suppose you have a throw counterable move blocked. If you think your opponet will attack you you can just sit there and block, and if you think your opponet will throw you you can enter the appropriate throw escape. But surley there is a more "advanced" defensive technique than simply reading your opponet's throw escape or attack? (oh yea, yomi = reading the opponet's moves, or guessing correctly what the opponet will do)

Anyways, there is something more you can do in this situation. A term coined by I believe blondie or one of the other flordia players was "taking your percentages", or what to do in that situation that will statistically beat as many options as possible. (of course, nothing is a be all end all guaranteed to be safe, but taking your percentages is about minimizing your risk and by doing the thing that will avoid as many obvious counter attacks as possible)

Anyways, in this situation, if you wanted to avoid linear attacks, semi-circular attacks (if you dodge in the right direction), and two throws you would enter EDTEG, or escape double throw escape guard. The first escape should really be called a dodge, but I guess DDTEG doesn't look too nice. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

What EDTEG is is you dodge and buffer in two throw escapes, holding guard after the second throw escape to prevent a whiffed throw animation should you dodge and not get thrown. What this does is dodges any linear attacks or any semi-circular attacks if you've dodged the right way. This also avoids the two throws that you've buffered in. Avoiding all linear attacks, some semi-circular attacks, AND two throws seems like a pretty good deal right?

Of course, this technique has it's drawbacks. First off, it loses to any full-circular attacks or semi-circular attacks if you dodge in the wrong direction. It also loses to all but the two throw escapes that you've entered. Also, it takes practice to get the input down precisley.

Also, if your opponet thinks you are going to EDTEG there are ways he can beat it. You can wait for the dodge to "whiff". (a "whiffed" dodge is when you enter a dodge command and you dodge, but you don't actually dodge an attack. When you dodge an attack you hear a sound and get like a faster dodge) If you wait for the dodge to whiff then you can hit them with a launcher as they'll be vulnurable and still in the whiffed dodge animation. You can also wait for the whiffed dodge and then throw them, because if you delay your throw they're buffered throw escapes will be useless. Of course, they could always enter additional throw escapes after the fact, but then it just goes back to the guessing game...

One problem with delaying launchers and throws is that if your opponet thinks you'll do that, he can simply attack and because you are delaying your attack you'll lose your advantage you're in having just blocked an opponet's throw counterable move.

And with all this talk of delaying launchers and throws aside, there are easier ways to counter EDTEG. For example, a full-circular attack such as a sweep or shun's b+p.

Anyways that's EDTEG and delayed launchers/throws as best as I know them. If I made any mistakes please feel free to correct me. I'm not sure if I could properly explain the other defensive techniques and the theory behind them (mainly cause I don't even know what they are!) so if anyone else would like to step in and post that'd be awesome.

Another topic I'd like to talk about is taking guaranteed damage on block versus trying to throw or something else. Like, if I block a p counterable move, should I always go for pk or my character's equivalent or try to throw? On paper, getting guaranteed damage and frame advantage is great, but if your always taking the guaranteed damage your assuming your opponet is always breaking whatever throw you'll do. Do you think it's worth it, every once in a while, to make your opponet work for those throw escapes and not just assume he is entering them correctly or always take the minimum guaranteed damage instead?

I'd go on the record to say I think it's worth it to memorize the big moves and what you have guaranteed after them. For example, if you block a high risk move like akira's double palm or double jumping kick late in the 5th round when no one has any life left, you should be able to know what guaranteed damage you have and then take it, especially if it'll win you the round.

Also, one final thing I'd like to bring up for discussion is not letting people get away with canned strings that can be broken with a d+p, dodged, etc. For example, if you've blocked the first punches of pai's pppd+k or pppb+k canned combo you can d+p her out of the third punch. Same thing goes if you block the first punches of kage's ppb+p. Also, I believe you can dodge the second hit of lion's f+p,p combo which will give you more advantage than if you blocked the second p (which seems to push him out of range or most punishment) Are there any common canned combos that have easy outs that people should know about? Just a thought...

Anyways that's about it, like I said, if I've made any mistakes feel free to correct me, and let the Theory Fighter begin!

 

Let's not forget the very informative memo from Hiro!

Here's a link to the thread all about ARE...

I believe ARE does not work in FT anymore? Perhaps we shouldn't really discuss it in this thread as it may be a mute point...

I'd like to give props to the DTEG, without the dodge... I believe you can only do this after you are at -8 or more... You'll get two throw escapes and guard (so you won't whiff any throw escapes) plus you also won't be vulnerable to full or semi circular attacks... The disadvantage is that you won't get the advantage of a successful dodge if your opponent did linear/semi circular attack...

I wonder if any new offensive/defensive techniques are going to be in FT (you know, with the whole extra frame for buffering)...

Also, I wouldn't mind a healthy discussion on technical play vs yomi... Obviously, you don't need to be able to do E-QTEG to be a formidable foe - but where do you draw the line?

-Alex

 

As I see it, DTEG is more safe than EDTEG for the simple fact that you don't have the delay factor to deal with. When your dealing with defensive techniques, it's the most truly "defensive" of them all.

Probably the most essential defensive technique (IMO) is the Fuzzy Guard. Discussed in this thread here. It will get you out of alot of things that boil down to straight mix ups but that is where Yomi comes into play.

No matter how many techniques you know, your execution, or your combos, if you can't out yomi your opponent at a high enough clip, you will lose. To think in battle just the right amount is the key to alot of fighting whether VF or real life.