Thoughts on VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Llanfair, May 16, 2001.

  1. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Heya.

    Just a few thoughts/questions from what I've been reading lately.
    Movement: dd, uu for dodging sounds good. I like the fact that it's not 8 way run. I hate 8 way run. Dodging is superior in my opinion for a quick paced game. However, with dd now representing dodging, how does Jacky switch stance assuming he still can? Can one 'bob' the character (by holding guard maybe)?

    System:
    No undulation I could care less about. Flat rings are overwhelmingly popular.

    Ringing out opponents now is somewhat hindered but will likely take care of the typical RO whining in Japan.

    Kipping fast with P+K+G Sure, why not. I just hope there's some recovery still - that it's not instantaneous stand and go. Another solution to incescent whining of pounces and a hopeful solution to the 'no pounces' mentality in some whacked arcade scenes.

    Blocking low punches high. Right. Crack is what we're on here. This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. If it's true and remains in the game, Sega needs a lobotomy. I just can't even fathom a decent reason for doing this.

    Taka not in the game. A major disappointment. Highly unlikely that he is out of the beta only - too bad, he was very well designed many thought.

    my thoughts.
    cheers,

    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
     
  2. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    "I just can't even fathom a decent reason for doing this"

    - yeh, it does seem stupid. maybe the casual players complained because they kept getting interrupted (and so frustrated) by more knowledgeable players' use of low punch...? something along those lines anyway (i.e. to stop players easily interrupting attacks in this way).
     
  3. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    That's the thing... it would seem that you can still interrupt an attack with a low P (you can't high guard and attack at the same time); it seems the idea is to stop people from closing in quickly, low punch, then throw or whatever, or to prevent low punch from being used to KO when a tiny bit of life is left or to chip away at the life bar etc?

    I'm also not sure about this... is it only the standard low punch? can moves like Lion's b/d+p,p also be blocked high? (I doubt it, but...)

    spotlite
     
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    some quick points:

    - r.o. are not taboo in japan. players utilize it all the time with even more ruthlessness than here.

    - the quick recovery is a good idea since it speeds up the game a little. but it also introduces a new guessing game: recover from the stomp or eat an attack if anticipated.

    - the down punch is still quite strong in 3/tb, especially as a flowchart initiator. i don't want to see it as an attack that can be blocked high but i can understand why sega would want to do it.

    what i don't like is throws having execution time. tekken players have no idea what a big difference this makes.
     
  5. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    "what i don't like is throws having execution time. tekken players have no idea what a big difference this makes"

    Interesting enough...I just had a nice conversation over at guardimpact.com.

    I was referring to how changes in VF4 MIGHT follow the Tekken path...

    while only one person over there agreed with me it is not a good idea...the general feeling is...

    " IF YA GOOD, U CAN THROW HIM".

    One guy did point out maybe Sega did not have faith in their throw system...(somewhere along this line...I dun exactly remember)

    Reading it, I dunno whether to feel angry, insulted or plain agree....especially when examples such as "Tekken is still big in Japan, VF is gone in Japan...Thus Tekken the more popular system" are given to me.

    Q?

    <font color=red>~~~SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN~~~'
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    one possible reason could be that instantaneous throws are too strong against beginners...esp. considering how much damage throws take in vf3. i.e. make the game more attack based.
     
  7. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think the balance between attacks and throws is spot on in VF - all of them. Both tactics are very powerful giving the user a good choice and variety in his/her fighting style.

    My problem with low-P blocked high is purely out of aesthetics and logics. The concept sounds stupid. Really. Why have attack levels if they're not going to be implemented properly?

    cheers,

    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
     
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I must be a part of the minority in thinking that a low-P blocked high is a Good Thing. I think it'll eliminate stupid/ugly low-P wars, and it seems to follow the trend of development of the low-P from VF2 to VF3 i.e. reducing it's effecitveness.

    Every character will still have low attacks which can only be blocked low. And I'm sure you can still use low-P (MC), high/low throw techniques.

    The attack level of the low-P, visually, looks more mid than low to me. (but this is me just trying to visualise it in my mind). The actual concept of squatting in place and punching your opponent in the leg was always a little retarded to me anyway :)
     
  9. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    like I said in irc yesterday...who in the world would crouch n start punching the guy's kneecaps?

    I never liked the idea of low P anyway...

    There are times, during the crucial moments of a battle where I am trying to outsmart my opponent...and I end up being defeated by a silly low p. I mean, sure u can say 'that is an area u should have considered~!'.

    but realistically, when I play, I expect better from my opponents. Not some low level but high priority move. Shows a lack of thinking.

    if this implementation is carried out into the final version...I will be glad.

    I dun have to put up with silly ppl doing nothing but low p all day.

    Plus, if we have to guard low to overcome low p, we run a risk of eating mid lvl attacks.

    Now seriously folks, u call this tactics?

    No low p? fine!~

    There are always low kicks anyway!~

    <font color=red>~~~SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN~~~'
     
  10. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I accept the low P being blockable high in general. I don't really care too much about the whole thing.

    The way I see it, it was well considered. The only reason I would get annoyed at all about low P being blocked high in TTT was the fact that neutral guard existed. It's no big deal overall though and low P still has its annoying property of being able to interrupt many higher contacting attacks. I don't believe a neutral Guard exists in VF4 either. And low pokes seem like they're gonna be a more focused area with some characters than in the past. Lion will probably have a low poke advantage against Lau who will probably have slower low pokes. Just an example in a small context, but you probably get the picture.

    In the least, it will probably kill some stupid looking semi-guessing games. Would be weird if you can throw a low Punching opponent now though (like during the hit frame I think), that's the added disadvantage of the low P in TTT I think.

    Again, I'm not all gung-ho in either direction on the low P subject. It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me at all. You can still CD and interrupt your opponent with a low P I'm sure.

    -Chanchai
     
  11. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Well-Known Member

    I've always wondered why ppl care about the realism factor in games. It's irrelevant! It's the gameplay that counts. Realistic settings and graphics are cool, yes, but realistic gameplay is usually not.

    Ofcourse lowpunching is non-existant in a "real fight". So is getting up after taking a crescent to the face.

    Btw, I think the fact that lowpunches are blocked high, while presumably still hitting low, might be a good thing. The lowpunch will still be able to interrupt a lot of rushes and attacks, but can't be used to initiate an attack string/throw of your own against a close opponent who chooses to stand and guard - you're going to have to improvise and go for something bigger. I think the close-proximity fighting will be upped a notch in difficulty because of this.

    Btw did I read somewhere that wolf has a lowpunch reversal that opens his opponent up for a throw? Sounds cool to me, and also sounds like the lowpunch is something ppl are expected to be using.

    - Jan
     
  12. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    Plus, if we have to guard low to overcome low p, we run a risk of eating mid lvl attacks.

    <hr></blockquote>

    oh nooo! God forbid if you have to adapt! sheesh. that's the whole point - it creates a situation in which you can condition your opponent. Now, don't get me wrong, I think spamming the shit out of continous Low-P is a retarded tactic. But conditioning your opponent to crouch is a good one.

    I have further thoughts on this though - In VF there are 2 Low-Ps. I'm all for the low-P (*d+P) that's executed from a crouch to be blocked high, thus solving the spamming issue. However, I think that a low-P execute froma standing postion (d+P) should be guarded low.

    cheers,

    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
     
  13. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Lanly..my point is that there are ppl who does nothing but low p ALL THE DAMN TIME...and it spoils the game cause I have to guard down all the time and not be able to do my intended attack~

    Just my two cents

    <font color=red>~~~SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN~~~'
     
  14. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Agreed - spamming low-P sucks. But there are ways around this. Change it up. dodge. ;) Solving this problem by allowing you to block the low-P with a high guard, imo, is not a good solution.

    cheers,

    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well low punch block high would be a good idea, in my opinion.

    Low punch is only useful if it interrupt anyway, so you meant to use it in aticipation of opponent attacking, ie not blocking.

    So Low punch block can be blocked high, won't make much difference, unless you are one of those annoying fighters who over use poking low.

    Low kick can be used in place of it IMO

    Now all throw becoming catch throw, that's kinda weird. Maybe this is to increase throw distance. Maybe execution time vary with distance.

    What about reversal system, no one talk about that yet. Still b+P+K for Akira, Aoi, Pai, Kage ?
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    On the note of Neutral Guard,

    Last time I heard VF4 has beginner system of some sort implemented, and the system has some kind of Neutral Guard implace, is this true, can anyone confirm ?

    vfkidz
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My problem with low-P blocked high is purely out of aesthetics and logics. The concept sounds stupid. Really.
    Why have attack levels if they're not going to be implemented properly?


    who decides proper? I would say that the game designers are more equiped to do that. Low punching as a tactic is stupid. Go ahead, do it. Get into a very low crouching position and then unleash a punch at your opponents ankle. Ooooh. I was hoping they would remove low punching altogether but this is a good start.

    Maybe the time has come to put away preconceptions and just let the game be the game.

    Mikey
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Kage will probably benefit the most from the new ring size.

    Then again, the catch delay might balance things out a bit.
     

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