Threat Stance discussion

Hey Folks -

I am an aspiring Jeff player but will not have access to vf5 until the 360 version lands (sob); however, I figured I could glean some knowledge from you lucky bastards who are already wallowing in all its glory.

I've watched a ton of Jeff vids, especially HighKick's, and he uses Threat Stance pretty seamlessly in his offense. The (admittedly small) amount of time I've been able to mess around with it...well...it always ends up feeling decidedly un-seamless. Pretty clunky, etc. I was wondering if y'all had any words of wisdom regarding flowing into Threat, how you incorporate it into a balanced Jeff offense, when to use it, cancels into or out of it.....anything.

Much obliged.

 

You don't need VF5 to practice Threat usage. Evo is fine enough.

P6P and 4P+K lead to threat.

No cancels, nothing else.

Use it for oki (hard on AI): mid kick hits crouch (13i mid!!!), P+G catch throw on standing (VF5/FT only), P>6P+G on high blockers (leads to 75-99 damage combo!), and throw out P+K because the frames on hit/CH kick ass (staggers block too).

You can use it after stagger or larger frame advantage.

It is also a fucking kick ass taunt.

Just practice... I wish I still had my PS2 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Threat is good for surprise your opp - and it's catchthrow have awesome range and for me this is the main option. P+K is good against opps who can't struggle well or if opp ahve wall behind his back. K and P options are not so good - K is good if you go into threat and then find your opp to be too much aggresive for the main 2 options. P is half circular (and on block leads to nasty damage), so I use it rarely.
But I stick mainly with catchthrow, which beats evaders and do some good damage; and after I learn my opp to crouch as reaction on threat, I go for P+K. But I use threat rarely still - it seems to be too easy to learn how to beat it.

And especially - you must be carefull of using threat against good Lion player - he can beat all of your options easily.

 

Threat Stance have some deffensive properities. Jeff moves a little bit back from opponent. You can use it to make opp's 2P miss (but not from the closest distance).
I use mostly P+G and K from it. Rarely I use P+K (it's too slow and easly evadeable) and I use P only when I suspect that opp will freeze, or when they get used to K. But since you have P+G (which beats evaders, is faster and has better range) is less useful then it was in VF4:Evo.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Tested the frames for entering threat stance, and as per usual they're better than the movelist would imply:

p6p p+k+g
grd: k beats 3p, loses to 3k == 16f effective, or -3f
hit: p beats p+k, loses to 6p == 15f effective, or +5
ch: p beats 11fp, lose to 10fp == 11f effective, or +9

4p+k p+k+g
grd: k beats p+k, loses to 6p == 15f effective, or -2
hit: p beats 46p+k and 4p, loses to 4P+k == 19f effective, or +1
ch: p beats p+k, loses to 6p == 15f effective, or +5

neutral P+K+G
after guarding K+G, threat K beats another K+G, loses to 9K+G == 25f effective, or 12 frames wasted by threat stance (this may be off by a frame if 9K+G somehow wins despite doing the same damage)
after hit K+G, threat K beats 6p, loses to 12f jab
after ch K+G threat K beats 10f jab

Posted the frames (not the justification) up in the wiki - let me know if you see any mistakes or find counterexamples.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Dang, that's great to know actually.

Starting to realize though, the visual cues of how you enter are huge against some people. Some are so trained to spot P, 6P that they're fully prepared for it, same for 4P+K. That's all subjective usage of it though, this is nice concrete stuff to base setups off of. Thanks for the effort on this one KoD.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Yeah, I had pretty much stopped using p6p threat b/c I assumed you were at a disadvantage on normal hit (so they'll just jab you out of threat), and on counter hit you have a guaranteed knockdown in p6pp anyway.

But it looks like normal hit p6p ~ threat K is totally valid and should beat pretty much anything as long as you input it asap.

Other weird thing I noticed & put in the wiki is that the catch throw can beat even jumping / nonclashing attacks; dunno if this was common knowledge but it was news to me.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Noticed last night that if you get a rising kick to whiff (e.g. using om), you have enough time to do threat K ... and for some reason, the crumple it produces on side/backturned recovery counter is actually better than the crumple on sideturned major counter. You can follow up with double bounce combo, on any character.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

The Threat stance is a threat to all. It's killer!! I just hate to get caught right in the middle of a attack, just leads to major damage. I seem to catch fighters in the threat catch move. It's messed up to see Jeffry laugh as he punishes his foe. I find it funny cause I laugh when I do it too. The CLAW is a good move to use if it's blocked. The axe kick finishes the job real well. Muhahahahahahaha!! Now that's mariner's power!!

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

I noticed that going into threat and doing after doing either , or tends to yield a counter hit for most people because they try to interrupt with an elbow... If not they tend to duck for fear of a throw and still get caught with the kick... Some opponents I've fought might sidestep, but training them to duck and not sidestep into a + gives a freebie threat ... Sometimes I try to vary the time I execute the from threat whenever I use it, although I try not to spam it. cancelling to threat seems to make people duck and get hit also...

Has anyone been rewarded with a crumple after doing a delayed when someone tries to sidestep and attack??? I've had this occur a few times, and I haven't had the time to figure out how big the hitbox is for that move...

I try to use from threat, but only a few times was I able to get that to connect. Either the opponent ducks, or manages to sidestep/backdash it...

I use + from threat to punish a whiffed kick... I force the whiff with a backdash to threat, and then either stagger to mixup, or I get the hit. I like using it against walled opponents though...

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

For me, Threat is most successful as soon as my opponent techrolls because generally they want to attack as soon as they get up.... not a good idea.

Of course, this doesn't work on everyone so sometimes I just throw it out at random and keep my opponent honest with a mid from threat stance.

For Threat I like to do a into it or some standing 's so my opponent stands still for a second. A smart player knows to duck when threat stance happens or simply interrupt with a fast standing so you have to be smart with it, and some people are easier to hit then others, not mentioning any names.

Threat throw is basically almost the same as Threat except that instead of being half-circular it's full circular so to speak, if I'm having a bad day with threat 's I switch over lol. Or if I know my opponent always evades when I go into threat stance I use it's throw.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Anybody have any really good strats for blocked Threat +???

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

Jeffry wiki combos.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

just FYI, in the "Black book combos to be tested" the wiki incorrectly lists Threat Stance P as P+G. There's only two but it can be confusing if you don't realize it right away.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

I didn't mean what combos off of the move, I mean are there any good setups to catch the opponent with that particular move, provided he/she blocks.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

ahh. clarity helps. your previous sentence doesn't indicate that at all.

Really, it's all about conditioning your opponent or just seeing how your opponent reacts.

PfP into threat stance is a good mix up especially if you have your opponent recovering from a natural or wall stagger. People with quick reflexes can make getting to the blocked P hard though.

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

What the hell? Isn't attacking immediately after getting up a stupid option? I'm sure techrolling in general puts you at something like an eteg disadvantage (of course it depends on what knocked you to the floor but unless it's something like Vanessa's DS P+G throw and you tech it you are probably at - frames)

 

Re: Threat Stance Frames

It works fine if your opponent is dashing in to throw you.

 

Look out for a player called THE WEIAND he has a good Jeff and likes to use threat stance a lot and choke slams etc!

 

Yeah, what Plague said, what now boy?!