throw counterable

I know that it is widely known that moves that recover at -8 are throw-counterable but have anyone really went to test it out in PS2??

I know that moves that gives +8 on MC do not give you confirmed throws. Why? how about +9? is there any moves that gives confirmed throws? Jacky's neutral reversal,P gives +10 and that is confirmed throw right? So do all moves with +10 frames give confirmed throw?

 

Akira's knee (-8) is definitely throw counterable... set the AI to do knee, P ad infinitum as an easy test. I'm not sure why an MC jab doesn't guarantee a throw, though, but I'd guess that +9 would be a pretty sure guarantee.

 

I know you cannot throw a hit stun but how about Jacky's neutral reversal,p? That is confirmed throw right?? or not?? I am just wondering if there is a magical frame advantage when you are recovering from hit stun but not be able to attack yet, ie the a specific transition when a throw is guaranteed.

Maybe the Jacky's reversal makes the opponent recovers weird. It does not look like a normal hit stun.

 

Jacky's neutral reversal does guarantee a throw. According to Wilson brothers.

 

guarantee?

U can easily reverse the throw...
but I suppose guarantee here means ' yes..throwing is an option'.

Sometimes I get confused by the term guaranteed...
Isn't that supposed to be 100%?
Not 50% because opponents has the chance to reverse the throw?

 

Okay, the deal is this:

1. An MC high punch typically gives +8 to +11 frames advantage.

2. An MC high punch causes the opponent to snap back briefly for ~2 frames (2f is my approximation)

3. A regular blocked move that is -8f is *definitely* throw counterable.


So, what does this all mean, put together?

1. If you jam on P+G immediately after an MC P, you will whiff because the opponent is briefly in hit stun (snap back)

2. Light/mid characters generally don't have a guaranteed throw after MC P. Why? Because even though you are +8 or +9, the ~2f snap back means you are really only +6 or +7, so if the opponent jams on PPP, you will get hit out of your throw attempt.

3. Nonetheless, for light/mid characters, if you're at +6 or +7 (after deducting the 2 frame snapback), and the opponent was busy inputting a string of moves, you're quite likely to land a throw unless the opponent has fast reaction times and enters P, d+P or DTEG. (And this is completely possible, btw -- cf. Napoleon in the Zepp Tokyo tournament movie.)

4. Wolf and Jeff do indeed have guaranteed throws after MC P. Why? Because they are at +11, so after the snapback, they are effectively +9... still plenty of time (relatively speaking /versus/images/icons/smile.gif) to throw. But, you have to make sure not to throw immediately after MC P, you have to wait for a split second, then throw. Here, df,df+P+G (or 270f+P+G for Wolf) works great because there is a slight delay that "syncs" with the snapback.

5. For Wolf, GS is guaranteed since it's an 11f catch throw. Snapback doesn't matter here since there's a longer "collision" phase for the throw.

 

are you sure you cannot throw hit stun or is this all theory? only thing i know you cant throw is a move in execution phase.

 

Ya the reversal is confirmed throw situation for VerC. It isn't for VerB.

 

That is the problem. There are some moves that guarantee throws. I think Jeffery has a couple. I just read on a Japanese board, 4p for DS vanessa is guarantee throw on counter but you have to dash forward. Never tried yet.

 

I will try it for u when my bro wakes up. +20 frame on MC!!!!!!!

 

wah u r very evil, ur bro just wake up n u want 2 test this kind of move on him!? What a day 2 start with...

 

b+p(D) MC -> throw = confirmed. need to move a tiny bit forward. It works after a few tries.

P(MC) -> throw not confirmed...... Tried alot of times. Way to test is have someone to spam punch. and u MC him and try to throw never worked for akira, sarah, wolf. Tried delaying didn't work either..... someone try too thx /versus/images/icons/smile.gif